David Mansfield has a library of business books at home. Many of them are very good, many include great concepts and strategies. But he kept finding himself asking: ‘How do you apply that to Monday morning?’
And thus was born The Monday Revolution – a rallying call to rethink your working week and return to ‘factory settings’. What really matters? And what’s getting in the way of that?
In this week’s conversation he shares his writing journey, with great tips particularly on how to turn the stories that present themselves to us every day into material for a book.
LINKS:
The Monday Revolution: https://themondayrevolution.com/
David on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MdayRevolution
Alison on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bookstothesky
The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/
The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge sign-up link: https://alisonjones.leadpages.co/proposal-challenge/
PI-Q webinar: Virtual Meetings, Real Engagement with Penny Pullan: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pi-q-webinar-virtual-meetings-real-engagement-with-penny-pullan-tickets-101816786750
Alison Jones
I’m here today with David Mansfield, whose early career in the commercial operations of advertising and media industries exposed him to the best and the worst excesses of the business world. Eventually leading Capital Radio PLC, to run the team that built the most admired and successful businesses of its era, he has many years of experience encompassing a wide range of companies and sectors, from retail, research, events, digital transformation, and corporate finance, just to name a few. He is a no-nonsense visiting Business School professor, academic fellow, management consultant, investor, and public speaker. And he’s also of course, the author of The Monday Revolution: Seize control of your business life, which is just out from Practical Inspiration. So welcome to the show, David.
David Mansfield
Thank you very much.
Alison Jones
It’s very good to have you. It’s quite a CV, isn’t it?
David Mansfield
Yes, it is. There’s quite a lot going on there really. But yes, I enjoy it all. So why not?
Alison Jones
And it’s much more varied I think than many people. You never subscribed to that, you know, focus thing did you, it’s a bit of a renaissance man kind of profile?
David Mansfield
Well, I think that’s happened really over the last decade to be perfectly honest. I mean, I really only had two or three jobs and they were all pretty consistent. And then I worked in the commercial side of media for most of my sort of formal career. So really, it’s only in the last decade or so where I’ve taken on a whole variety of different activities, which I which I’ve enjoyed, I mean, it was a bit of a transition. It took me time to get used to moving from going to the same place every day and getting paid a regular amount of money to moving into this sort of non-executive consultancy, very academic-type thing, but I really enjoy it. So yes.
Alison Jones
And tell us about The Monday Revolution. It is a brilliant rallying call, isn’t it? But what do you mean by it?
David Mansfield
Well, it came about because I was talking to a professor at Cass business school. I’d just become involved with Cass. And he suggested to me that I like telling stories and we were talking about business and not being an academic myself, it was very interesting to hear the views of an academic on business compared with my own practical experiences. And so we had a great time getting to know each other exchanging views on the world of work. And he suggested to me that it would be interesting for Cass if I would write down these stories and put them into some sort of paper or book and get involved with the business school. And I liked the idea of that. I’d been thinking about having a book for some time, and I decided that this was something that I’d like to pursue. So that’s what we that’s what we talked about. And out of that discussion, came really the idea for The Monday Revolution because he liked my approach, a sort of no nonsense, practical, simple way of business and getting things done. And we were both becoming increasingly aware and concerned that business was becoming messy and over-complicated, data-heavy, and that people were having trouble cutting through all of this to actually get stuff done. And that’s how it came about.
Alison Jones
So tell us a bit more about what’s wrong with… and I know exactly what you mean by this, by the way, when you say seize control of your working week, that completely resonates because I think we’ve all been there. We’ve all got to the end of the week and gone, Well, what did I actually get done this week? But that’s a symptom of something deeper, isn’t it? what’s gone wrong with the working week?
David Mansfield
I don’t know if it’s gone wrong, I suppose. I suppose in many respects, it appears from me to me that weeks have become less productive. And I think probably at the heart of that, and this makes me sound a bit of a Luddite, but I assure you I’m not, is the technology that was really supposed to make things more efficient, free us up from the day to day stuff, and help us get more done. But in many respects, that’s not what’s happened. And I think what’s gone wrong with the week is that businesses and management, really leadership, has allowed technology to creep into our working lives in such a way that what was supposed to help us actually holds us back. And I think that that’s the that’s the problem. And I meet too many people who are busy. You know, when you stop somebody in the lift before on the corridor or whatever, and say, how are you? They used to say, I’m fine, thanks. How are you? Now they go, Yeah, I’m fine, but I’m really busy. And I think that’s part of the problem. Everyone’s too busy. And they’re too busy doing things, perhaps which aren’t really making a contribution. I read something which sort of said, you know, people are spending more time in meetings now than ever before. And it’s only really when they’ve left the meetings, they can go back and do their jobs.
Alison Jones
And do you find that going in as a fresh pair of eyes – because you go into businesses now where you’re brought into it to help them sort themselves out, really, you know, get control of the business – do people recognize that when you tell it to them, are they aware that it’s an issue or is it genuinely news to them?
David Mansfield
I think I think there are two answers to that. I think that yes, there is an awareness. But I think also there is, for lots of people, there’s a feeling of inevitability and a lack of control. I think that people now see this is the natural order of things. And therefore, I think, I don’t think people feel helpless about, but I think that they’ve become resigned to it.
Alison Jones
I think we see ourselves as part of the system.
David Mansfield
I think that people… more people, people that are like me, seem to be working evenings more than they used to, they seem to be working weekends. And the answer is you sort of can. Not in every profession, of course, but in lots of professions, you know, remote working is very easy to do. And so people tend to do that. And so they tend to push their day to day tasks into their own time, in order to do other stuff. And I think that people see this now as the natural order of a sort of working week, and therefore, there isn’t really, too much pushback in many respects, because they just think that’s how things are. And my book really is about saying managers and leaders in particular, and I’m talking about the people that really do have the control to do this, because not everybody does. to sort of say, whoa, hang on, you know, are you spending your time in the right way? And is this really what you should be doing it all to move your business forward? And I know that if I go through… when I do my work with people, I know that if I go through their calendar or a diary, and take, say, a month at a time, and go through each working hour, and say, Why are you doing this? Why are you going to that meeting? Why do you have to attend or what’s the purpose of this meeting? Who called it why are you doing it? I could free up 50% of people’s time. Because actually, when you challenge them, they go: Actually, yes, someone else could do that, or that meetings needs to be half an hour. You know, why are meetings an hour? Because they sort of aren’t they and there is a default about calling meetings.
And people do. I mean, you talk to anybody…
Alison Jones
It’s your Outlook calendar, isn’t it, you just fill in an hour…
David Mansfield
Well it is, yes, you fill in an hour, and other people can get hold of it. That’s the problem. You know, these days you don’t really control it in many respects, because people just plonk stuff in there. And you sort of feel you have to go. And, you know, it’s these types of things, really.
Alison Jones
And there’s loads of really, really tactical, really practical tips and things like that, especially meetings. But there’s also something more more… nebulous? That’s the wrong word. But there’s something underneath it, which is about a mindset change as well. And that’s really interesting. So talk us through that. You can look at things that are wasting your time, you can look at things where your priorities are spent wrong. But there’s something fundamental about a shift in just how you approach work, isn’t there? Just tell us a little bit about the Monday Revolution mindset?
David Mansfield
Well, the mindset falls into those sorts of categories, really. I mean, I think it’s a chapter… Depending on where you are in the hierarchy of your your work – it doesn’t just have to be work. I mean, it’s life in general, really, I mean, I love the quote that that Keith Reid, put in the book, he said, This isn’t a book just about business. It’s also about life…’
Alison Jones
Keith Reid, for those that don’t know, lyricist of A Whiter Shade of Pale which is the most rock and roll endorsement we’ve ever had, loved it.
David Mansfield
Yeah. Well, it’s another story, of course, but Keith’s a friend of a friend. And even that was I think in the book, I say, you know, I talked about what Keith’s plans were for the week and he said, he never had any plans because he wrote one good song and that was all he really needed to do. He has in fact, when I sent him the transcript for that, the copy, he did say to me that in fact, it wasn’t quite as easy as that and could I rewrite it for him? So I did, I’d oversimplified it, which tends to be my thing, but… Yeah, I think the mindset is important. And what I do is I try to encourage people really to just think about things a little bit a little bit differently. And think about why they’re doing them and what they’re really trying to achieve. And I do think I said somebody the other day, you know, I used to sort of look in the mirror… I used to have a terrible boss. He was inspiring and scary all at the same time, you know. And, you know, I used to have to get myself in the right mindset before I spoke to him, really, because he was very difficult. And I was determined that he wouldn’t spoil my day, and that’s what I used to say to myself before I met him.
So I think that the Monday Revolution is about changing your mindset. It is about if you like going back to factory settings, to give it some sort of current parlance, you know, it’s factory settings. If you look at your computer, devices, whatever it is, you’ve probably got loads and loads of clutter on it and stuff all over your desktop stuff and documents stuff and downloads, it probably runs more slowly than it ever did before, because you’ve got more and more stuff on it and you haven’t cleared it out. And I think the going back to factory settings and going, whoa, hang on, what are the important things here in my life or at work? What am I trying to achieve? You know, why? How can I get that balance of productivity and happiness in the right place? Well, I could spend my time more wisely. So let’s have a look at what I’m currently doing. And I’m not saying that making wholesale changes are easy because they’re not, and quite often you’re not in control of your working life, in particular, because you’re not the boss, you know, somebody else is telling you what to do. And I met somebody the other day who’s pretty senior, but her boss had said he always wants to run a meeting on a Friday afternoon for three hours and she thinks that’s a crazy idea. And I think it’s a crazy idea too, but you know, it’s her boss. What does she do about it? And so we talked about perhaps, how she could make some suggestions as to the things that could be his idea to try and make it shorter. And put it in a better place. You know?
Alison Jones
Love that.
David Mansfield
So I’m not saying that’s always easy. But, you know, you mustn’t give up on it.
Alison Jones
And what really, I mean, what I take away from it as well is that sense that your attention, your purpose and what you want to achieve in the day, that comes from you that you don’t have to be at the mercy of what other people want all the time and the settings of you know, the people around you and the structure and the way that things are, that actually you can be quite intentional. And that can come out in really quite small ways. Like saying, why don’t we make this meeting half an hour shorter, or it could come out in quite big ways, and you take that whole span through the book?
David Mansfield
Yes, I think I think you’ve got.. I think that’s the right thing. I think I you know, I hope in the book, there are enough tools for people to be able to just think about this. I mean, there’s a tool that I use quite a lot these days. I’ve been, I was very susceptible to people saying, I would like to meet you, should we have a cup of coffee? I mean, that happens to me every week, you know, someone will say, should we meet for a cup of coffee? Well, you know, my commute into the centre of London, from where I live isn’t very long, you know, it’s half an hour. But if I’m just going to go in for a cup of coffee with somebody that I don’t know, and that’s it, that’s two hours of my life. You know, getting on the tube, going in meeting them for coffee, and I don’t want to sound miserable or antisocial. But actually, for many, I say it in the book, you know, for lots of things really, to be perfectly frank, they’re not looking for a new friend, and neither am I, they’re looking to try and do some business. So they usually want to sell me something or get me to introduce them to something and I’m the same, it’s what I do. But what I tend to do these days is say to somebody, look, why don’t we have a call. Let’s have a call. And then if it seems worthwhile, we could meet up, it’d be great to see you personally, you know, that’s what I try and do. So I run my life through calls.
Alison Jones
We call them voffees: Virtual Coffees.
David Mansfield
Is that what you call them? Yeah. Well, I think that’s a good idea. I’m not a massive fan of doing everything on email. And I found this makes me slightly unpopular with certain groups of people. Because there’s a point at which I do go, Whoa. Can we just have a call about this? Because I want to have a discussion. I don’t want a discussion on email. You know, I do think that that’s something else which has sort of crept into our world, which in many respects isn’t always very helpful.
Alison Jones
Yes. It’s interesting isn’t it? We’re talking in the midst, probably at the early stages of the coronavirus, lockdown. So you’ve got lots of good reasons to say to people, no, actually, I’m not gonna schlep across London and meet you for a coffee because I’m not allowed, so we’ll do it virtually. I think that’s going to change things for people as well.
David Mansfield
Well, I hope it does in a way. I mean, I let’s hope that this sort of current situation provides people with some positives, and I’m sure it will, and…
Alison Jones
And certainly a lot of people are reconsidering how they work. So it’s very timely in that sense.
David Mansfield
Yes, I think I think that’s right. I mean, we need to be careful about those things, obviously. Because, you know, for some people, and I know, depends who they are, and how they feel about things, but for lots of people working at home wouldn’t be a great answer. I mean, you meet your life partners, mostly, at work, you know, you don’t meet them stuck in your flat. You know, I made the point in my book that I worked at a company where they were, they spent a lot of money on in-house entertaining, you know, very swanky restaurant area and catering and everything but that was fine to a point, you know, it’s nice to have your clients in, but ultimately you didn’t meet anybody. I mean, if you want to meet people…
Alison Jones
You need to get out more! Apparently there’s an app for that now too, David…
David Mansfield
Well, I’ve always been a great believer in that, you know. I do say in the book, if you don’t turn up, you’ll never know what you missed. And I make the point that, you know, you buy tickets for a gig you didn’t really want to go to on a Monday night, but you sort of did. And then it’s pouring with rain and the thing’s on at Wembley, and you know, you’re in East London, you think, Well, why did I do that, but you’ve arranged to meet your friends and you don’t want to let them down. So you go, and when you get there, you have a great time and the band’s brilliant and your friends are there, and you think, wow, I came really close to not doing that.
Alison Jones
Yes, and the thing is, if you don’t do it, you never realize what you missed.
David Mansfield
Well exactly, you don’t know. And people often say to me, Oh, David, you know, you’ve got such a big network. You know, so many people, you know, well, it didn’t just happen, I didn’t build them all on LinkedIn, I spent a lot of time building relationships and helping people with what they were trying to do, because I’m a great believer in karma and the fact that what goes around comes around.
Alison Jones
Well in your case, it certainly came around with endorsements, didn’t it? You’ve got some of the best endorsements have ever read.
David Mansfield
Yes, those are.. I was very pleased with that. It’s very nice of those people to say good things. I’ve been absolutely astonished, really, by some of the reaction to the book, you know. And I know it’s my job to sort of sell it and talk it up and everything, but at the end of the day, it’s a book. And I just tried to write down things which I thought would be helpful on an everyday basis to people. And, you know, I’ve got.. I’m sitting talking to you from my study, and I’ve got a library of business books, they span years actually, some I’ve bought, a lot of I’ve been given. And there’s some really great books there. But a lot of them, you know, it’s very hard to know how you would take that advice and put it into the everyday business world, you know, great concepts, great strategies and everything, but actually…
Alison Jones
Quite abstract?
David Mansfield
Yeah, they are abstract. I mean, how do you apply it to Monday morning? It’s really quite difficult. So, you know, I’ve tried to write a book where, whether you’re just starting out as an entrepreneur or somebody more junior in an organization or somebody who’s leading a company, there ought to be something there for you. And I’m looking really to try and create those sort of ‘Aha’ moments, where someone says, Yeah, we should be doing that. I mean, a friend of mine read the book the other day, and, you know, I sort of felt quite uneasy about what they were going to say. And they said, ‘You know, I just read your book, I need to read it again, because there’s so many things in there that I think I could apply. I just, I should have written them down while I was reading, because I’m sitting there thinking, God, I should be doing that.’ And for me, that was that was all I wanted to achieve, you know, the ultimate endorsement. That was it really.
Alison Jones
Tell us about the writing, David, because you’re not a writer first and foremost, it’s not been your medium before. How did you find it? What surprised you about the process of writing it?
David Mansfield
Well, I think the only thing that I ever really was any good at school was English. And that may not come across now of course, but but it was, you know, it was, it was the thing that I quite enjoy. I’ve always liked literature and I did do all right at English I think, probably because it didn’t really take very much effort. So I’ve always I’ve sort of liked it. I’ve always read a lot. So from that point of view, I think that somewhere deep down, there was always an idea that, that maybe at some point I could, I could sort of write some stuff. So I think it sort of came from that, really. And my wife says… she thinks it’s quite uncanny that I remember, I have apparently a very good memory for stories and incidents. I can recall things in quite a lot of detail, and lots of people don’t seem to be able to do that. So I’ve got this sort of memory bank of stories. So when I was writing the book, I didn’t have, you know, I read about sort of writer’s block and you write about it and give great advice about what to do suddenly all seems hopeless, and you just can’t think what to do next and everything else. I didn’t have it. I didn’t have any of that problem because I’ve got so much stuff. You know, I said at the book launch the other day, you know, I’ve got enough material for another one. It’s a bit like I think I said it was a bit like Oasis, you know, they’ve made their first album and they’ve got enough tracks for the second one already, you know.
So I don’t think I’m ever going to run out of material because I constantly I constantly collect it…
Alison Jones
But too much material can be actually more of a problem than not enough content when you’ve got to structure it…
David Mansfield
Well, I suppose it can really, I mean, I, and I would advise anybody to, I didn’t really come up with a structure for my book, it was a whole series of stories, which I then had to reorder. And I remember originally you saying to me, Well, you know, perhaps these ought to be put in some sort of order because there were no chapters originally. So I regrouped them on the advice that I had and that all started to make some sense, I mean I had an introduction nd then sort of ending and stuff. When I sent the book out, the sort of draft copy to 20 people, most of them said they thought that would be a good idea because there was no navigation. So I suppose that’s right. But I do collect stories, I’ve just written something for a blog thing where I talk about my coffee bar down at Clapham South stations new little coffee shop, you know, when I went there the other day just to pick up a coffee. The guy said to me what you listen to in your headphones, so I think I said I was listening to Radiohead or something. And so he then came out with two or three recommended bands, and then gave them a website where you could go on and they do sort of pop up events for free with sort of new and interesting music, I mean and that cost me two quid for a coffee. You know? And that’s all about… and here I am telling you about it. So that’s recommendation, probably loyalty. He probably could tell me something else off the back of it, all of those things, just by him asking me what I was listening to. That’s the sort of story I put in my book.
Alison Jones
And it’s goes back to intent, that story goes back to your point about going to the gig even when you don’t feel like it. Because you know, those conversations you never had. You never know what …. it’s your luck surface area, isn’t it? What opportunities, what knowledge you could have got out of them? Yes. My Mum can talk to anybody, and I used to be sort of “Oh Mum…’, you know, but actually, it’s a great gift. And now my kids are really embarrassed because I do it as well…
David Mansfield
Do you know what the word is, Alison? The word is… We need to teach people to be curious. You know, people need to be interested. I ask somebody and I don’t mean in a superficial way I remember. You know, I try and ask people how they are when I when I meet them, you know, whether it’s the guy on the security desk or an office I’m going into, I usually say things like, how’s your day going? You know, and people are grateful for that because most people don’t care. Yes. I think being curious is is really good because it opens all sorts of doors for people, you know, if you’re interested in people, they’re interested in you. And that’s when things happen.
Alison Jones
And that actually, again, goes back right, the beginning of our conversation where we were talking about technology. And one of the downsides of it, I think many of us go around in a kind of self-isolated bubble, literally, because we’ve got our headphones in and we’re listening to our music, but also metaphorically, because, you know, we’re only seeing the stuff from people we know and like, and it’s being filtered so that nothing offends us and actually, you have to really work quite hard to be curious and make new connections in that kind of situation, don’t you?
David Mansfield
Well, I think you do, but I think it’s a mindset, back to what you were saying a minute ago. I think it’s a sort of mindset really, you know, let’s be interested let’s try and be interested in other people, because all sorts of things happen. Really, if you go back to probably the best business book ever written, Dale Carnegie’s How to win friends and influence people. That’s really the message in that book. You know, if you want to get stuff done, if you want to build a business, if you want to have great friends, you’ve got to be interested in them. And too many people are interested in themselves, you know, they go out and they think that their job is to tell their story, whether it’s about that person themselves, or whether it’s about the company they work for, they start with them. You know, and that’s not a great place to start. Really, you should really start with the other person. And that’s really what the book says.
Alison Jones
Yes, that’s the magic. Yes. Well, funnily enough, I was going to ask you in a moment to recommend a business book. Is that your recommendation or another one?
David Mansfield
Well, that is a recommendation. And so you should definitely go with that. I mean, I’ve got quite a lot of business books I that I like, and I think if anyone’s listening to this is going to go and write a book. I’ve, I listened on audio to a book by a guy called Chris Fox, I don’t have him but he, he, he teaches people sort of some stuff in it, about how to write and his. I listened to his book on audio and it’s called Five Thousand Words Per Hour.
Alison Jones
Oh, I have heard of that. Yes.
David Mansfield
And I thought was really I thought was really helpful because it teaches you, and it was a style that worked for me because I could sort of get it. But basically, you know, he talks about how you should write without stopping. So he talks about like, stuff like other people do, you know, having the right environment, not having any distractions, turning off your social media and all the rest of it, you know, doing all of that stuff, which is good, and you need reminding about it. But then he talks about just writing, not stopping for punctuation or grammar or going back over stuff. So he’s got a particular style, and he talks about how you can write 5000 words a day, and it really comes down to using stuff like Dragon Dictation, but you don’t need to spend money on that because because you’ve got an Apple Mac, you can do it on Apple, and it works really well. So I think there were two books there. I mean, one is How to Win Friends and Influence People, the best book ever written about relationships and stuff, and I use that a lot. When I talk to people, when I go and talk to schools, I tell them about it. It’s old fashioned, but the, the messages are as true today as they ever were. And then Chris Fox’s book, because it helped me.
Alison Jones
Brilliant. Thank you really, really good recommendations, and very different recommendations, I like that. Now, we’re doing it out of order now. So I’m going to go back and ask, if somebody’s listening to this, and they are still struggling, what would be your best tip for someone who wants to write a business book?
David Mansfield
Right? My best tip is that ideas and structure and examples and stories come to you all the time. Once you’re in the zone for writing a book, I think stuff gets on your radar. And so my tip to people, because here’s what I did, was have on my iPhone – because everyone has a phone with them – on the Notes app, just have something which says ‘book’. And when something happened, I would either dictate it, or I’d write it in there. So I had a constant stream of ideas that I could put into my book. Because you think you’re going to remember, but you don’t. You don’t. And you make it, you know, you read about people who wake up in the night, and I just had a great idea for my book and I’ve got a pad next to the bed. Well, I mean, that’s the same thing really, isn’t it?
Alison Jones
You’re right. The ideas are everywhere once you start looking for them,
David Mansfield
Yes, that’s right. I went on. I went on a Harvard course, many years ago. And the guy started off, of course, by saying, I’m sorry, but I’m going to ruin your lives. And he didn’t really ruin our lives, but it was a course which focused on customer service. And he said that once you once customer service is on your radar in terms of how people are dealing and treating with it, you won’t be able to think about it any other way. Which is true, you know, and I have never forgotten it. I’m constantly aware of how I’m treated as a customer because I went on a course that taught me to think…
Alison Jones
He did ruin your life did he?
David Mansfield
Well, it did in a way. Because you can’t help but thinking, you haven’t quite gotten that, right, you haven’t been to the customer care school, you know, you’re standing in front of a notice that says we keep treat our customers this, this, this this, you need to turn around and read it because you’re actually not doing that. I really, you know,
Alison Jones
That’s so funny. And he was right.
David Mansfield
That’s what I think.
Alison Jones
So David, if people want to find out more about the Monday Revolution, more about you, where should they go?
David Mansfield
They should go to my website, because it’s a great website that – I didn’t build it, it was built by a mutual friend of ours, and it’s got a radio station on it and it’s got links and it’s got events and it’s got stuff and I’m building it as we as we speak almost really but it’s www.Mondayrevolution.com
Alison Jones
Brilliant.
David Mansfield
That’s got my bio on, everything that we’ve talked about and more, all sorts of there, so if you want to know more about my approach, the book, and you know, things I can do to help if people are interested, that’s where it’s all sits.
Alison Jones
And I love that it’s a radio station too, genuinely first of our authors ever to have their own radio station. We listened to it at the launch party.
David Mansfield
Yes, we were. That’s work in progress. I mean, that’s with my my friend Charles, who does a bit of DJing and music and stuff. And so we bought a package to, anyone can do it, really, we bought that. And then we uploaded some tracks, but we’ve got lots of plans for it. So again, it’s just early stage, but you know, it’s there. And if you want something to accompany, or you’re writing it’s, you know, no dead tracks on that one. 500 great tunes.
Alison Jones
Excellent. Love it. Right. It’s been so much fun talking to you today. David, thank you so much, and congratulations on the book.
David Mansfield
Oh, thank you for your help. Alison. You’ve been brilliant. Thank you so much.