Episode 404 – LinkedIn mastery with Louise Brogan

Louise BroganLouise Brogan helps entrepreneurs and professionals elevate their LinkedIn game. In this week’s conversation she explains why LinkedIn is so important for businesses and why most people are so dreadful at it. From fundamental mindset to the most effective tactics right now, it’s a masterclass in maximising your profile on LinkedIn without losing your soul.  

She’s also in the throes of writing her first business book, so this is a great report from the frontline if you’re in that place and want some comradely advice and support.

And finally, Louise’s no-nonsense, super-helpful LinkedIn how-to videos have also made her something of a YouTube star, so I made sure to ask her all about that too… 

AUDIO

VIDEO

Louise’s site: https://louisebrogan.com/

Louise on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/linkedinwithlouise

Louise on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisebrogan/

Alison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-alison-jones/

The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge: http://proposalchallenge.com/

The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Substack: https://extraordinarybusinessbooks.substack.com/

The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/

Write with me! https://alisonjones.com/writing/

Alison Jones: I’m here today with Louise Brogan who is, well, she runs a boutique marketing agency working with entrepreneurs, SMEs and professionals who want to raise their LinkedIn game. She’s the host of the LinkedIn with Louise podcast and YouTube channel, as well as a group membership, the Link Collective, for people who want to DIY their LinkedIn.

In the past three years, she’s been a Small Business Britain champion, in the top 100 small businesses in the UK and the top 100 female entrepreneurs. She’s represented small business at Downing Street, she’s met King Charles at Buckingham Palace and we’re very, very pleased that she’s slumming it in the Extraordinary Business Book Club today.

I feel we should have worn our hats, Louise.

Louise Brogan: You can see Charles on my wall.

Alison Jones: Hey, there you go. I love it. He’s always in shot. Brilliant.

Well, it’s great to have you on the podcast. Just a little bit of context for people listening; you have recently, like in the last month or so, completed the 10 Day Business Book Proposal Challenge. You’re now in the Bootcamp and what I was particularly impressed by with your proposal was just your kind of sanity around LinkedIn.

 It’s never made sense to me in the way that you make it make sense to me. So I want to talk to you about that process later on as well, but I think let’s start with LinkedIn. Why is it so important? Why do we make such a mess of it? And how can we do it better?

Louise Brogan: Why do you make such a mess of it? It’s so funny. So first of all, thank you so much for inviting me on your podcast. I love coming on to people’s podcasts and chatting to them.

LinkedIn, so LinkedIn before the pandemic LinkedIn was, you know, my business has been focused on helping people with LinkedIn for five years at least before that was mainly all social media and before the pandemic, people were like, Oh, LinkedIn, yes, whatever, we’re all over here on Instagram and then during the pandemic, LinkedIn got a massive boost because of all the people who, not the entrepreneurs and small business owners, but all the people who would be going out and doing sales and marketing and going to conferences and going to trade shows were no longer able to do that during the lockdowns.

Alison Jones: Of course.

Louise Brogan: So lots of people started moving to LinkedIn. Lots of people started needing to understand how to use LinkedIn. And also with Twitter/X kind of…

Alison Jones: whatever it is now.

Louise Brogan: Yes, imploding a little bit on itself. A lot of people jumped ship and went to, a lot of people went to other platforms. A lot of people came to LinkedIn because it was seen as a steady platform to come to.

So that kind of explains why they’ve recently passed 1 billion user accounts and pre-pandemic it was about 550 million.

Alison Jones: That’s some growth, isn’t it?

Louise Brogan: Yes, there’s been huge growth and I think people are starting, so LinkedIn itself recognized that people like me were coming onto the platform and creating content to win business.

Now their complete focus is still on people in professional careers. And actually a lot of people don’t know this, but most of LinkedIn’s revenue, although a lot comes from ads on LinkedIn, a lot of it comes from their recruiter tool, which I think is a five figure sum for a license for a year. So they’re very, very focused on helping corporates, corporations, recruit, hire, retrain and attract talent and all that stuff.

But people like me realize that if you have a product or service to sell, the best place to, on social media, to sell that product or service is where people actually have the money to spend on that product or service.

Alison Jones: Yes.

Louise Brogan: You know, it’s kind of simple.

And started going onto the platform and started creating content.

And LinkedIn actually created something called LinkedIn Creator Mode which was aimed at helping people create more content because all the people in the corporates, and this is a very broad brush stroke, but people in corporates were going on to LinkedIn to connect and to refresh their profiles because they wanted to go for their new job.

But they started to stay because people were talking about things they were interested on there. So people like me, were talking about visibility on LinkedIn. Other people were talking about mindset. There’s people on there talking about menopause. There’s people talking about everything on there. So they would stay longer on the platform, which allowed LinkedIn to serve up its adverts and for recruiters to get hold of more people.

So it’s all like kind of an ever increasing circle

Alison Jones: Classic, classic sticky content stuff, isn’t it? And user generated content. Yes.

Louise Brogan: Yes. So that’s where they were really, you know, LinkedIn had this whole creator program, but when they surveyed the audience, and I’m sure it was like a small fraction of their audience, LinkedIn people don’t see themselves as creators.

Creators are people who run TikTok, doing dances and doing Instagram stories. So they are actually shelving the whole creator mode. But they are still allowing us to have the tools that come out of it, which were the LinkedIn audio, the LinkedIn live videos, and the newsletters, etc. But that’s where, yes, that kind of explains their growth and the kind of people who are on the platform.

Alison Jones: And that’s interesting about, I mean, you mentioned a few things there. Now I have to say, we’ve been doing a LinkedIn challenge in the Practical Inspiration Authors’ Group, which has been an absolute revelation because, I mean, it’s like driving a Porsche around the block to the supermarket, isn’t it? I had no idea of half of the tools that were there.

So you’ve just mentioned, obviously, the creator tools video and so on, newsletters and so on. I mean, put you on the spot a bit, what do you think are the kind of least known about, most useful tools that are on LinkedIn for people who particularly run their own business, maybe?

Louise Brogan: So OK, 100 percent what we call carousel posts. Again, LinkedIn tried to jump on this and create something called the carousel post itself. But people like me were already creating carousel posts on LinkedIn. And so again, they try things out and then they’ve shelved it already. But a carousel post is actually a PDF document that you upload.

And it’s like, easy way, so I was speaking to two clients yesterday who are kind of brand new to all of this stuff, and they said, Louise, I don’t really know what you mean by carousel post. So if you imagine a PowerPoint or a slideshow or a slide share, so maybe like 10 slides, not 10 images. So people will say, oh, that sounds great.

And they’ll upload 10 images, that doesn’t look the same.

Alison Jones: …not a slideshow in that sense, is it? No.

Louise Brogan: But it’s literally, so the carousel post is you create a PowerPoint slideshow where it’s every screen is a slide and I’m swiping across.

Alison Jones: More like a presentation. Yes. If you’re looking at this on video, you’ll get a marvellous sense of it. If you’re listening, not so much.

Louise Brogan: So people are swiping across to the next slide and that actually, every time they swipe across, that counts as an engagement on that post by the LinkedIn algorithm.

Alison Jones: I did not know that. That’s why it’s so good bumping you up the ranks.

Louise Brogan: Yes.

So if you’re an author and you’re launching your book, you could say, come along to the launch on Wednesday night and I’m going to talk you through, you know, key things about the book, whatever.

So another thing is Alison, people will only engage with your content if they’re getting something out of it. So if you’re just there to broadcast about yourself, they’re not interested.

Alison Jones: Yes, which is sort of the principle of business books as well. You know, it’s got to be actually useful to

Louise Brogan: It’s got to be useful, yes.

So you could do a post that basically says here are the five key things you will learn about in this book and each of those five key things, each thing will be on a slide on its own.

And then the last slide can be, if you want to pre order the book and then you can put the link to the book in the last slide, so something like that would work really nicely for authors, I think.

Alison Jones: And the value…

Louise Brogan: the other thing that most people, and I’m talking about 99. 9 percent of people are not doing on LinkedIn is short form video. So a vertical video. So a vertical video being, if you hold your phone up the way, not as sideways, up the way and record a video of yourself speaking into the camera, less than 90 seconds, add captions to it, upload it to LinkedIn, and then tell people what you’re talking about in the video in the post and ask a question. That is the most popular thing we do with our clients because I teach people how to use LinkedIn, but I also, for a lot of people who are just like, well, I have no time to do that, Louise, we do it for them and the video piece is the most popular thing that people like to do.

Alison Jones: and brilliantly, Louise actually did that on the way to this podcast. I mean, you must have been sort of, en route to sitting down. Obviously, if you come on the podcast, you get asked for your recommendation. And she did a little quick short form vertical video just scanning her, doing a quick shelfie and asking people about their business book recommendations.

Genius.

Louise Brogan: So I could have with that video, Alison, for example, I could have held up all the books individually by which time people would lose the will to live but also I’m showing you something, and I’m asking people a question at the end, and that is the really key piece is if I just said, Oh, look, here’s all my lovely business books. I like this one, this one, and this one. And I ended the video. People will be like, Oh, okay, nice. Click like and move on.

But what I’m saying is what’s your favorite business book? So people will like to respond to that and tell me what their favorite business books are.

Alison Jones: And that sort of conversational approach, that I think epitomizes your approach to LinkedIn generally, doesn’t it? It’s not you standing on a soapbox telling everybody how great you are. It’s like, and you’ve got this lovely analogy of it being a real live event.

Louise Brogan: Yes, so the whole thing about LinkedIn and if anyone’s listening to this and thinking, Oh, I don’t really like LinkedIn, it’s full of spammy, direct messages and my newsfeed is really boring. If you reset how you look at LinkedIn and think of it as being like an in-person networking event, you go to LinkedIn, you connect with people that you find interesting or they find you interesting, hopefully, and then you have conversations with them.

Whether they are in the newsfeed or out in the private messages, it’s all about building relationships, connecting with people and I have a term called building a network of value, which is people who are interested in what you have to say, you’re interested in what they have to say. They could become buyers of your book or clients of yours, however, more likely they will know somebody who needs what you are selling in your business and that’s where they become a really valuable network to you.

If you can get that network to engage in your conversation, they go home from the networking event and they meet somebody else at a dinner later that week and that person says, Oh, I really need help with X, Y, Z, and they’ll say, Oh. I met somebody this week at a networking event/on LinkedIn. And that’s exactly what they do. You should get in touch with them. And that’s pretty much how I built my entire business.

Alison Jones: Yes And embedded in that and I am struggling not to use authenticity because it’s such an overworked word. I mean, I can’t think of a different one. There’s some authenticity there and there’s some consistency there as well, isn’t there? And there’s some humanness there.

Louise Brogan: I’m writing a book, in my head, I don’t know, my book coach might have a different opinion here. In my head, it’s called LinkedIn for Real People, you know, and that’s kind of my approach to how I use LinkedIn, is let’s connect with people that if I was at an in-person event that I would want to stay in touch with them.

I would want to have conversations with them rather than going along and, you know, connecting with anybody and everybody and trying to get my business cards out to every single person in the room. There is a great analogy actually here and I’m always positive on social media. So forgive me if this sounds a teeny bit negative, but I went to a networking event in Northern Ireland and I was actually speaking at it and while I was getting ready to do my speaking bit, I could see a guy going around every single person in the room and setting down his business card in front of every single person and he was a competitor of mine.

And I was actually having a conversation with somebody after I finished my talk and he put his flyer down in between us and walked off. And to me, that is the equivalent of people just sending you a connection request.

Alison Jones: Spammy DMs. Yes

Louise Brogan: A spammy DM and not even, you know, not even going, hi Louise, how are you? It’s like, here’s my offer and walking away again.

So I thought that was, that might make it into the book, that one.

Alison Jones: And there is something that takes away the fear a bit because do you know what? We can all have conversations. We’ve all been at events. We all enjoy being at events with people who are like minded, people who’ve got interesting things to say.

Thinking about LinkedIn in that way, it takes a lot of fear out of it, I think, doesn’t it?

Louise Brogan: Yes, and I think that a lot of people that I meet, so, many people who come to work with me have been in a corporate role and so their LinkedIn network is full of people that they have been connected to through various jobs that they’ve done and maybe they’ve left that role and they’ve gone out on their own as a coach or a consultant or whatever it is that they’re launching their own business and a lot of people are really worried about what their ex-colleagues will think.

Like, who is she to think that she is an expert in this area, you know, she didn’t even get to senior management, you know, that kind of idea. But when I was speaking at a conference last week in England, and it was in front of 65 women, and I said to them, I think I took the fear away from them all, because I said, you know, what you have is knowledge that somebody else is going to find useful and your product or service is going to, when you share it on LinkedIn, you’re being of service to your network, because somebody reading that is exactly what they need to know or want to hear about. And if you don’t do that, aren’t you doing them a disservice?

So one of the ladies who runs networking events in, I think she’s in around somewhere in the South Coast of England and she did a video, she posted a video on LinkedIn today. So taking action like five days later. And actually tagged me in the comments and said, Louise, you were so right. This was not as scary as I thought it was going to be. And I checked in on her and she’s had like six comments and they’re all so positive and I’m just delighted for her because she would never have done that otherwise.

Alison Jones: It’s amazing how we let the fear of what people might think stop us doing so much in life, isn’t it?

Louise Brogan: Yes, absolutely.

Alison Jones: I’m going to segue, careful, here I go. It’s a bit like writing a book, isn’t it? And that imposter syndrome. And I’d love to talk to you about that, Louise. Did you see what I did there?

How are you finding being an author?

You are talking about writing a book now.

Louise Brogan: So my book story, it’s quite long winded. So talking about that kind of fear of getting over yourself. When I was at school, Alison, which was a long time ago, I loved writing, love writing, love reading. Like I was telling you earlier, I’ve just finished three books in quick succession.

Alison Jones: Concurrently, in fact.

Louise Brogan: Yes, me and my sisters are avid readers, and I’m delighted to say my kids are the same, which is brilliant, and my boys are always reading books, which is wonderful, but when I was at school, I was 16, I think, and I wanted to write something for the school magazine, and I sent it in, and you know, it was really terrifying, and it was actually, it was about an experience I had being capsized in a little rowing boat. And it never got published and I was absolutely gutted.

And I thought, Oh, I’m terrible. I’m rubbish at writing. I’m never going to write anything. And fast forward to my forties. And I started writing blogs on LinkedIn and I ended up, I pitched myself to write for Social Media Examiner, which is the number one social media broadcasting website in the world, basically.

And they accepted me and I wrote eight, really long, detailed articles about LinkedIn for them. And I thought, I can be a writer. So during the pandemic, I thought, I wonder, could I finally, eventually write this book that I’ve been dreaming about writing a book since I was 16, even maybe when I was in primary school, I was like reading all the Mallory Towers and the Magic Faraway Tree books and everything. Like I’m such a reader.

So I started pulling together everything I’d written about LinkedIn into a Google doc and it’s about 50,000 words long, but it doesn’t even, it doesn’t read at all.

Alison Jones: It’s a long document rather than a book.

Louise Brogan: Yes, and I thought, I wonder, should I just pull this all together and get somebody to put it into a PDF and stick it up online, and it’s like going to be a £2 ebook and it’s going to bring me in and I thought no Louise you are absolutely chickening out here from doing this properly and then my friend Ollie, Ollie Banks, who is actually launching his book this week

Alison Jones: We are speaking on the 5th of March. This is publication date for the paperback of Driving Retail Transformation.

Louise Brogan: He is so wonderful and him and I and another friend have been in a little mastermind group for probably about two years as well. And he said to me, I said, I’m trying to write a book. And he said, yes, so am I. And then he found you, Alison, somehow, I can’t remember how, and he worked through all your programs together.

And then he said, Louise. How’s the book coming along? And he’s such a positive person. I’m like, Ollie is not coming along at all. And he says, well, I highly recommend Alison. And that’s how I ended up joining your proposal challenge this year. Yes.

Alison Jones: And what are you noticing as you write it now? Because you you’re so much further along. I don’t want to sort of, this sounds really braggy, isn’t it? But look at how far you’ve come, you know. But you have, you know, and it would be kind of disappointing if you hadn’t. But you’ve really put a huge amount of thought into how you take the reader on the journey through the book rather than just kind of, here’s everything I know about LinkedIn, you know, in the sort of, 6, 000 page carousel post.

 You’ve got a much more structured table of contents there. So what have you, I guess, okay, so do you know what, I’m going to go straight to my question. What’s your best tip? And I know that you haven’t written a book yet, but sometimes it’s really, really good to get a tip from the coalface. From what you’ve learned so far, what’s your best tip for somebody writing their first business book?

Louise Brogan: I think it’s like everything in life. I think when you invest in getting support from somebody who actually knows what to do and when to do it and how to do it, you just, you just move in giant leaps forward. You know, it’s, and Alison it is like, you know, people hire me because they want to figure out how to use LinkedIn and yes, it could go on YouTube and they could you know, read lots of blogs and they could try and figure out themselves.

But actually when they’re serious about it and people make the step to go, right, I’m going to spend a bit of money in here and learn from an expert how to do this. It’s just a no brainer. It’s something I’ve done throughout my life.

It’s like, you know, people that want to know how I built my business. I invested in a coach that I worked with for five years to put the structure around the business. I know we’ll talk about, what’s your recommendations for books later, but there’s a fabulous book called Built to Sell and talks about having a product high service.

And the coach that I worked with said to me, Louise, you have so many ideas and you can do so many things. But if you’re going to build this business and get the revenue and the income you want, you’re going to have to focus. And she says, I don’t mind if you want to focus doing this or this or this, but you’ve got to do one of them.

Alison Jones: Yes

Louise Brogan: and I was able to build a product high service. So when people come to us and say, you know, what, how can you help us with LinkedIn? It’s really easy. I say, we do this or we do this and then they get to choose. But I would never have come up with that on my own. If I hadn’t invested in a coach, I would still be skating all over the ice, just going whatever direction I saw something, like something cool happening over there and flying over there to get after that.

And it’s the same with writing the book.

Alison Jones: It’s a bit of the curse of knowledge really, isn’t it, as well, is that you could do anything and it feels painful to shut any possibilities down sometimes.

Louise Brogan: But with writing the book, I have listened to podcasts on how to write books for years, but until you actually have somebody saying, right, Louise, here are your steps. Do these things week by week or day by day, as you think about the book proposal challenge. Until I had that structure, I would just be faffing around and probably in five years time, still not have ever written a book.

Alison Jones: and then you’d have had to, like, not be friends with Ollie because it would have been just too painful and that would have been terrible.

Louise Brogan: Yes. Mortified.

Alison Jones: I’ve saved you from that.

That’s hilarious.

So, well, let me ask you about the recommendation because I understand that you’ve been browsing your business bookshelves and what did you come up with?

Louise Brogan: So I have read loads and loads of business books but there’s very few business books that I’ve actually read the whole thing and I’m sure a lot of people are like that, you actually just dip in and out. And sometimes you get a book that people rave about and you read it and you’re like oh I, I get it.

This book is about one thing. I understand it by chapter three. I don’t need to read the rest of it. But one book that I read and I loved and I bought two of them.

So it’s called Think and Grow Rich for Women by a lady called Sharon Lechter. Now I originally bought Think and Grow Rich which is by

Alison Jones: Napoleon Hill.

Louise Brogan: Then somebody said, well, actually there’s this other version and there’s a couple of these actually, there’s a couple of different options for this but I love this book so much because it took the original concepts about Think and Grow Rich. It’s about masterminds and building networks of people around you.

But what Sharon Lechter did was she really focused in on how women could do that. And she has so many examples in this book. It’s crazy. Like you go back to the end chapters and there are so many quotes from really famous women, and not so famous women that are so inspiring. I read that book cover to cover and I recommend it to lots of people.

And how I have built my business is also through building up networks of people around me who are massively supportive and people I can bounce ideas off. And that’s, you know, that’s kind of what my group program is about as well,

Alison Jones: It’s kind of your LinkedIn philosophy really, isn’t it?

Louise Brogan: Yes, I’m a people collector and I’m a connector. I like being around people. I love speaking on stages. I like bringing together like minded people and that’s really what this is about. But it’s also about being strategic around it because I could go, you know, like this Saturday I’m going out for afternoon tea with three girls I went to school with and that’s really lovely and really relaxing, but in business strategically, who I’m connecting with are people who maybe they work in a similar area to me, or maybe they work with similar types of clients, or maybe they are at the same stage of business as me. And that’s really what this book is about, it’s strategic networks around you of people who can help you get to the next level.

 It’s not a book that you’d find on lot of bookcases in shops. So you do have to go online and look for it and order it. But yes, I think it’s really, really good.

The original book is also really good, but it’s also quite old and this is a more up to date version.

Alison Jones: And it’s quite male.

Louise Brogan: Yes.

Alison Jones: As it would be in the 19th century, and I’ve never heard of it, so thank you. I’m going to seek that out.

Louise Brogan: Absolutely. It’s fabulous. And interestingly Alison, I connected with her on LinkedIn and told her I loved her book and she’s not the only author I’ve connected with on LinkedIn. There’s a few like Mike Michalowicz who wrote The Pumpkin Plan and all those things I’ve connected with him.

Alison Jones: The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur, wasn’t he?

Louise Brogan: Yes, people are like so flattered when you connect with them on LinkedIn and say that you have bought their book, you know, why would they not accept your connection request?

Alison Jones: And I can absolutely endorse that. I’ve had people doing that to me, and what I love is that one day people are going to be doing that to you too.

Louise Brogan: Oh, I hope so.

Alison Jones: Now, I always ask my guests as well where people can find them. Before we do, I’d just like to give a big shout out to your YouTube channel, which is amazing! And, oh my goodness, I meant to talk to you about that right at the beginning and I completely forgot.

But tell, well, first of all, tell us a little bit about the YouTube channel, the thinking behind it, how it works for you, and then tell us where to find it.

Louise Brogan: Okay, so like a lot of people who have developed an expertise in a certain area, you get people connecting with you and asking you questions all the time. Louise, can I just ask you this? Louise, just a quick question. It’s wonderful, but when it becomes like an avalanche of questions, you’re like, Oh, okay,

Alison Jones: And the same question 500 times.

Louise Brogan: What am I going to do with all these people?

Like, I want to help all these people, but if I answer all their questions for free, I’m not focusing on building my business. So, during the first lockdown, so March, 2020, I ended up in a little mastermind with five people, two of whom are YouTube experts. And when I say experts, like Tom Martin he wrote a book about YouTube optimization, so go and check that out if you’re interested in doing YouTube and then another guy called Luke Sherran, who has, regularly has millions of views on his videos on YouTube. Not about anything that I do. Luke’s is all about muscles and, you know, exercises and stuff. And Tom’s, Tom’s channels are actually about he distributes movies. So he goes to film festivals, buys movies and distributes them.

Alison Jones: Not direct competitors then.

Louise Brogan: No, totally not, but in this little mastermind, they said to me, Louise, you should totally be on YouTube and Tom, who is, they’re both really experts at YouTube, and Tom said, like, I don’t think there’s a lot of people talking about LinkedIn over on YouTube. I think there could be a real market for you here. So I just started making videos that answered all the questions that people ask me. And I think I’m about to hit, I’m about a month away from 10,000 subscribers, which is, sounds massive, but on YouTube terms, it’s tiny. It’s really tiny.

But I think what the difference is, is when someone Googles a question online, so maybe it’s how do you update your LinkedIn profile photograph? There’ll be a video that I’ve made about that cause I’ve 250 videos on there. And all I do in that video is tell you how to update your profile photograph.

So I don’t get into waffle about, Hi, I’m Louise Brogan. Today, I’m going to show you how to update your LinkedIn profile photograph. And somebody actually messaged me yesterday from India. And she said, I love this channel so much, Louise, because there’s no blip blap blop.

Alison Jones: And we know exactly what she means! It’s a two minute video and the first 1 minute 30 seconds is them introducing themselves. Like, no, just tell me the answer to my question! And of course, Google prioritises YouTube search results, doesn’t it?

Louise Brogan: Yes, it’s because they own it. They own YouTube.

So that was like, it was a revelation to me. So I started, you know, because it was lockdown and the kids were, my kids are teenagers. So they were doing their own homeworks and I’m in my office, my husband’s in the family room working away.

And I’m like, I am going to lose my mind. What am I going to do? So I started making my videos and they started to take off and it’s been amazing. But also, when I get asked, because I do webinars for people all the time and all the questions I get asked, I’m like, Ooh, let’s make a video on that because it’s so, someone’s asking me the question. That means other people want to know as well.

And now I’m at a stage where I passed a million views on YouTube in around September, October last year, and I get paid about 400 pounds a month by YouTube, which is, you know, it’s nice.

Not to be sniffed at, is it?

Yes, exactly. So I’m just really encouraged by it.

And I’m actually speaking at a conference in Birmingham in May called TubeFest, which is how, now the organizer did not call it this, but I’m going to say it’s how a middle aged mum of three ended up a YouTuber.

Alison Jones: Amazing. And not a dance insight. Brilliant.

So you need to tell people where to find you.

Louise Brogan: Yes. So louisebrogan.com is the website and on YouTube and podcasts, it’s LinkedIn with Louise. And of course, connect with me over on LinkedIn.

Alison Jones: Because it would be kind of ironic if that wasn’t an option. Brilliant.

Louise, it’s been so much fun and so insightful talking to you. Thank you so much.

Louise Brogan: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.

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