Episode 189 – Podcast publicity tips with Kelly Glover

Kelly GloverKelly Glover is the queen of podcast promo. She’s booked thousands of authors, entrepreneurs and experts as guests on top podcasts and taught them how to make the most of the opportunity, drawing on her own media experience as a radio producer, talent agent and podcast host. 

In this episode she reveals the secrets of being a great podcast guest: how to get the gig, how to prepare and perform, and how to squeeze every last bit of value out of the opportunity. And it’s not just what she says, it’s how she says it: Kelly walks her talk and this is a masterclass in how to be the perfect podcast guest. 


The Talent Squad Media Kit: https://thetalentsquad.com/mediakit

Alison on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bookstothesky

The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/

This Book Means Business – the mentorship programme: https://alisonjones.lpages.co/this-book-means-business-mentorship/

The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge January 2020: https://alisonjones.leadpages.co/proposal-challenge/

The 1-day Business Book Proposal Experience: https://alisonjones.lpages.co/proposal-vip-day/

Alison Jones:                        I’m here today with Kelly Glover, who is the founder of The Talent Squad. She specialises in booking podcast interviews for entrepreneurs, authors and experts. She’s got an 18-year track record working in media. She started podcasting in 2007, which is bonkers. She’s hosted her own syndicated radio, worked as a talent agent, a celebrity interviewer, and as she’s produced award winning podcasts at the network level. Welcome to the show Kelly.

Kelly Glover:                         Thank you Alison. I’m a big fan of yours and it’s an absolute pleasure to be here. I could listen to you all day. Just read the dictionary. I’m in.

Alison Jones:                        Even with the croaky voice, with the post Frankfurt flu? Even with that?

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, the Frankfurt flu? Still great. Loving it. Thank you.

Alison Jones:                        Oh, that’s so funny. Thank you. And I’ll tell you what, I got a compliment from you. That means a lot because you know your podcasts. I mean, 2007, seriously? That wasn’t even podcasting then, was it?

Kelly Glover:                         No, so I was in community radio. This is before I went professional as a radio announcer. And back then, it was the radio show that you pulled off air, cut out the music and cut out the commercials, and that’s what a podcast was.

Alison Jones:                        It was an audio download….

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, so it was the first iteration of podcasting that I had known, but it was so complicated. Now, you just record it. You’ve got all these programmes, you upload a file, it’s amazing. But yes, back then it was radio without the ads and music.

Alison Jones:                        Fantastic. And what is it about podcasting that you love so much, do you think?

Kelly Glover:                         I love that you can go super niche on podcasting and super deep. So, everybody usually listens to a full episode. I think a stat that I remember is 86% of listeners hear all or most of the episode, when you’re consuming other media, if that’s a blog post, a YouTube, an interview, you’ll just tune in and out and take the headlines. So, I find that you can get someone’s personality and passion much more through podcasting, actually feel like you get to know them, than you do with other media.

Alison Jones:                        And I was wondering if that’s a function of how you listen to podcasts. Because most of us listen to podcasts when we’re doing something else. We’re cooking or we’re running or we’re taking a shower, something that makes it harder to flick because actually that involves your eyes. So, you started a podcast, you’re kind of committed to it because you’re then doing whatever you’re doing for the time that you’re listening to the podcast.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. And when people refer to podcasts, you’ll hear them, “Oh I’m in the middle of a podcast episode.” So, they consider it a whole, standalone episode piece that you finish, like a book. You don’t just stop reading a book in the middle unless you dislike it. You’re on a quest to read the whole thing. Same with a podcast. You plan to listen to the whole episode, not just consumed some of it, like everything else. So, I think that the time you get with people half an hour episode, hour episode, is all focused on them. So, it’s amazing.

Alison Jones:                        It is. I love it. I absolutely love listening to podcasts, and obviously I love doing them as well. I’m interested in the time thing, actually, because this is about half an hour -ish. You know, it’s not exact, but it’s kind of within spitting distance of half an hour, which is kind of the same as a slowish 5K run, three mile run. And that’s kind of how I worked it. So, is that right? Am I doing that right? That was just kind of, “Well, let’s see how it works.”

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, but I do zero 5K runs, but I do commute, so therefore… But it doesn’t matter. If I’m not finished an episode on the way to going somewhere, I’ll just finish it on the way home and then start another one, and that goes into another bingeable pattern. So, I don’t think it really matters when it comes to that. If you like the content, you’ll keep listening and listening and listening.

Alison Jones:                        Yes, I think that’s really true actually. And I quite like some of those that just go forever. It’s like watching Game of Thrones, except in a podcast form. It just goes on. It’s this epic podcast, I call it. There’s two hour ones as well. Just occasionally on a long drive.

                                                      If you’re thinking about being a guest, which we should probably talk about because I could just pump you about being a podcast host all day, but if you would like to be a podcast guest, how do you do that well? As an author, say, for example, firstly, how do you find a podcast and pitch for it if you want to be a guest?

Kelly Glover:                         So, I think it’s a bit like in your book, Alison, where you have to have a plan and ask yourself the questions before you even write the book. So, before you go on a podcast, for authors, you need to think, “Okay, who do I want to speak to and what action do I want them to take as a result of me going on this show?”

                                                      Yes, you can go on a podcast, but it needs to be the right podcast for the right audience saying the right thing. So, you need to do it that way and reverse engineer. And you also need to be ready with your talking points before you even pitch a podcast. So, I know authors are experts in their fields, they’ve spent a lot of time, possibly years, writing their book, but that isn’t necessarily what you’re going to promote on a podcast. It’s the end result. But you really need to go on there with content that the audience and host wants.

                                                      So, it’s not about, “I’m going on a show to promote my book.” It’s you as the expert in your field talking about the area of expertise. The book is proof of that expertise, and you can mention that in there for people to go back to. So, it’s not about going on about the book, it’s about going on as you and having that as the reference.

Alison Jones:                        Yes. And what’s interesting as well is you’ve done your research. You know you’re coming on this show, you’ve listened to a few episodes, you’ve read my book. That’s really interesting. Is that part of the preparation as well?

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, I think anyone that’s a good… First of all, never go on a show without having listened to the show, number one. Never pitch a show without having listened to the show. So, at The Talent Squad, we’re an agency and we book experts and authors on podcast tours. So, that’s our job to do that up front. We call it sourcing, vetting and pitching shows.

                                                      But if you’re pitching yourself, you still need to go through that process. So, there’s something called Podfade, which is super common in podcasts, because it is a relatively new medium, and that’s when the show starts up, realises how much work it is, and for whatever reason, stops producing shows. So, there’s something like 750000 podcasts right now, but not all of them are active. Not all of them have guests. A lot of those are narrative podcasts. So, for example, true crime is big at the moment.

                                                      So, even though there’s that amount, you’ve got to find, and some of them, you might be talking about accounting, but a lot of those might be business, mom shows, any number of genres. So, they’re not going to fit you. So, you’ve sort of got to go through to the ones that you want to pitch. Maybe a show you find seems excellent, but they might not have guests, so you’re not going to pitch to that show. Or maybe it’s a women’s show and you’re a male, and you’re not going to fit on that show. That would be a mistake to pitch that show if you’re not the kind of guests that thereafter.

                                                      So, there’s an upfront aspect to deciding on you’ve got to be a fit for the show, but the show also has to be a fit for you. And that’s even before you craft the personalised pitch to the show.

Alison Jones:                        And the personalised pitch of the show, let me tell you, it’s so important. The number of generic, you’ve just sent this out to everybody, haven’t you? Haven’t troubled to target it to me. I have no interest in this person because you’ve no interest in me. It’s really interesting.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. So, Alison, why don’t we talk about how many times you get pitched, who pitches you, what you like, what you don’t like, because you are a host and you are on the receiving end of this. So, are you open to sort of sharing with your audience a little bit about that? And this will also tell people what not to do and who not to pitch, so saving you time.

Alison Jones:                        This is a neat reversal. So, what I hate is the generic PR, the publicist approach. So, it’s not typically the author directly, it’s the publicist, and they’ve got a boilerplate press release type thing. “This is the book. We’d love to get on the show. It would be a great fit.”

                                                      No, I don’t think it would be a great fit. What we do here is talk about how the book works with the business and the process of writing. We go under the hood. It’s not just about the topic of the book, and that’s typically what the pitch is all about. So it’s really clear that they haven’t listened to the podcast. It’s really clear that they’ve just blatted something out to I don’t know how many people, and there’s no attempt to intrigue me, giving what they know, or what they should know if they’ve looked at it, what my interest is in people.

                                                      So that, just no. There’ve probably been a couple where I’ve gone, “I’m actually genuinely interest in that.” So, I have done it, but generally, no, but there’s just so many coming in. What I find interesting is I don’t get many offers pitching directly. I don’t know why that is actually. It’s mostly publicists.

Kelly Glover:                         So, people are hiring agencies to work on their behalf or you think that… Because there’s a few ways to do it. So, we’re The Talent Squad. We represent people. That’s what we do. So, you would consider us a publicity agency. But the other way people tend to do it is get somebody from their team to pitch on their behalf. So, that’s internal. And then some people might hire VA’s.

                                                      So, whichever way it comes to you, as long as the person is trained and know what they’re doing, I think it’s important to, how would I say, go to the professional level. Because if you send a pitch and it’s not right, you’re going to get blacklisted, number one, and you’ve lost that chance. Even if it is the right show and you pitch it in the wrong way, you’re not going to get on that show.

                                                      I think people think, “Yes, there’s 750000 podcasts. It’s easy to get on a show.” But it’s actually more competitive than you think. So, a weekly show has 52 spots, and if you’re getting, 10, 20, 50 pitches a day, that amounts to thousands a year. So, you actually are competing against a lot of people, so you must get it right to get that look in. Otherwise you’ll get deleted.

Alison Jones:                        And actually, now you say that, I wonder, I think it’s probably not publicists that are making that mistake. I think it’s probably somebody on a team who, perhaps, isn’t quite as confident or as practised in it. That’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that. Yes.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. The other people you’re competing against is the back catalogue of the show, and people don’t think about that. So, if you’ve got 100 episodes in the can already, and you’ve covered something that your client or that you cover as well, you can’t pitch the same thing because it’s already been done. So, therefore, you have to look at the back catalogue of the show, find the white space and ask yourself, “What is nobody else talking about but should be?” And that’s why every pitch needs to be custom instead of a blanket, “Hi, insert host name, really loved the insert episode name.” You know, that’s just not going to work.

                                                      You’re too smart. Hosts are too smart for that now. And if I got that as a… I still get pitched for a show that I stopped recording years ago. “Hi, I’d love to be on your show.” Awesome, let me get my time machine because that finished [inaudible 00:10:43] years ago, buddy. I ain’t doing it no more so.

                                                      That shows me they’re not paying attention, and as somebody pitching a show, the other way is, if that person hasn’t published an episode in six months, nine months, or if they have big gaps in between, that means they’re not consistently producing. So, as somebody who’s pitching, that’s something that you need to look at as well. So it goes both ways in the vetting process.

Alison Jones:                        And it’s interesting you say about 750,000. The last figure I heard was just over 500,000, but that was probably a year ago. So, it’s growing fast. But I wonder what proportion of that, as you say, are active, regular podcasters. Probably pretty small, isn’t it? It’s an awful lot of dead podcasts out there.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. And then you’ve got to look for them in your niche as well. So, if you’re a gardening podcast, how many of those are gardening podcasts? How many of those have covered a topic that you would like to cover as well? So, that’s why you need to take time and be… Is it possible? Absolutely. But what I’m saying is, don’t look at it flippantly and just be like, “Yes, I can get on a podcast so easy, and just send a generic email,” because you will put time into it and not get the results that you’re looking for. So, put in the work up front to get the pay off. Otherwise you’re just spending time…

Alison Jones:                        Absolutely, and as a host, I completely endorse that. I’d much rather it… I got a personal pitch, and it’s really tailored to the show. It’d be quite rare, I guess, for me to turn that down, because I can see that the business case that they’ve made. I think you’re probably better to pitch to a very small number of podcasts that really suit you and do it really well.

Kelly Glover:                         I think so, too, Alison, and a lot of people think, “Oh, I just want to get on the big shows,” and the usual suspects’ names come up every time because everybody wants to be on them.

Alison Jones:                        Can you get me on Tim Ferris? Yes.

Kelly Glover:                         Of course, Tim Ferris. That’s the number one, number one show. Every time I email Tim’s assistant, he always seems to be on “hiatus.” So, he’s really living that four hour workday practise.

Alison Jones:                        He genuinely is doing it.

Kelly Glover:                         Love Tim. I love him.

Alison Jones:                        Well, good for him.

Kelly Glover:                         Love him. Yes. Also slightly jealous of him and he sounds amazing. Big fan. But why go on that, when it’s a huge, big, generic blank audience, blanket audience of business lifestyle, when, if you’re that gardening person, you could go on a gardening show that has 500, 1000, 1500 listeners, all wanting to know about gardening. That’s where I’d rather go. Because they go in there for those problems, for that particular audience, and they’re your ideal client. So, that’s where knowing your talking points, knowing your topics, having your media hooks ready, having your one sheet ready, having your online press kit ready, which I’ve seen yours. If you want to see a good one, have a look at Alison’s because it’s excellent.

Alison Jones:                        Thank you. I’ve got to say, I thought it was all right. And then I looked at yours and I’m like, “Oh man, I’ve got so far to go!”

Kelly Glover:                         So, well that’s something that I found a gap in the market for, because I was a podcast producer, and as a producer, when we have a guest on the show, there’s certain things that we want. So, I thought, “Okay, well I’m going to expedite that process in reverse for when we send our clients out.

                                                      So, I’ve got the head shots in there, I’ve got the talking points in there, I’ve got the logos in there, the one sheet. If I had a book, there’d be a download of the book. If there was a movie screener, there’d be a password and it would be protected, but you could watch the screener. It’s got a timeline in there.

                                                      So, anything any producer would want, having me as a guest on the show for the research, I’ve done it, so you don’t have to go and look for 20 social media links. So, I think that’s really important, and you’ve got that as well, Alison, for the show and also you being a guest. So, you’re already there. But I recommend that to anybody. Everything I’m saying is actually for any type of media, not just podcasts.

Alison Jones:                        Yes, and that really struck me, actually. This is exactly the sort of process you go through for a pitch for an article. We used to call them press releases, but we don’t really call them that anymore, do we? But there’s pictures to any kind of PR. It’s exactly, you need that marketing collateral behind it.

                                                      I’ll be putting the link to The Talent Squad up on the show notes at extraordinarybusinessbooks.com, and I really recommend people go and have a look at what Kelly’s done there, is absolutely exemplary. So, we’ve talked about being a host, we’ve talked about being a guest. The whole thing about starting a podcast now, I mean 750,000 podcasts out there, it’s not a trivial number. Do you think that boat has sailed, or is it still worth it? If somebody out there thinking about starting a podcast, what would you say to them?

Kelly Glover:                         Absolutely worth it. I don’t think the boat has sailed by any means, but I would ask the question again that you ask your authors when coming up with the idea for their book, is what’s the purpose and who are you speaking to? Because otherwise, you’re just putting a lot of effort into something where you have no end goal for it. So, think about that upfront.

                                                      Are you building your own audience? But something that a lot of people don’t think about when they’re doing podcasts, which is a huge benefit, is sometimes getting the guest on the show is actually the target and not the audience. And that can be for relationship building, for affiliates, for any number of things. So, you can also think of it as that way. You often have access to guests that you wouldn’t have access in real life. So, those relationships are endless.

Alison Jones:                        Yes. When I started the Extraordinary Business Book Club. I honestly did not care if anybody was listening. For me, it was a way of getting my book written, and doing the research in public, and also accountability, because if I was talking about writing this damn book, then clearly I’d have to actually publish the thing at some point.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, and being the host makes you a better speaker. So, at The Talent Squad, we call it the speaking gig you don’t have to leave the house to do, and that goes on the way of the host and also the guest. If someone’s looking to start a podcast, just think about upfront how much do you want to put into it. If it’s weekly, if it’s fortnightly or monthly, and that will help you. You don’t have to do one episode for the rest of your life.

                                                      I think that’s why podfade is a thing, because people don’t quite… And you don’t know. Until you start, you have no idea what actually goes into it. So, that’s fine. But maybe start being a guest on other people’s shows first, so you can reverse engineer and see how other people do it before starting your own show. And once you’ve done a couple of podcast tours, then you already have a bank of people to choose from to bring onto your show that you have relationships with. So, you don’t have to throw the party. Be a guest at somebody else’s party first as an interesting strategy to get started and ease your way into it.

Alison Jones:                        I love that phrase you used, a podcast tour. Talk us through that a little bit more.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, well we call it a podcast tour because it’s essentially a book tour, but you’re going on podcasts. So, the package we start out with is 12 podcasts tours, 12 podcast stops. So, it’s a stop on each tour, which is a different show, and you’re reaching different audiences, which can be in your own country or globally. So, we find a lot of people go Australia, the US, the UK, Canada and New Zealand, because those audiences, English speaking audiences for different kinds of books. So, that will go across different markets, depending on who your market is

Alison Jones:                        But they wouldn’t be going out at the same time would they? Because I know when I record, you’re going out on Monday because I’ve lost my bank of podcasts I’ve recorded. But sometimes I’m recording three months in advance. So, presumably it is quite hard to coordinate them all going out around the launch of the book.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. So, if somebody wants to do a podcast tour, or any media tour, really, you need to do it well in advance of the book release, months ahead. With podcasting, you’ve got to think of every single show as being an individual media outlet with their own schedule.

                                                      So, unlike television, radio or magazines that have an editorial calendar, and you know when to pitch for that, some shows I’m going on and recording now will not come out for six months. Some shows I’m booking now, I can’t even get on the calendar to record for maybe three months. And then that’s however many months after that it will go live. And then there’s a show like this where you’re going out instantly. So, you need to know, you can book and record well ahead of time and request, “My book’s going out in March. I’d really love for it to go out then. Is it possible?” And then it’s up to the host to schedule.

                                                      If you do that well enough in advance, obviously they want it to be a success. So, they’re more than likely to accommodate, but it’s not expected. Podcasts or earned media. So, you can’t make a request, “I want it to go out on this date.” If you want that, then that’s advertising. So, there are just a few things to consider.

                                                      With recording, the recording is up to you and the host on the schedule as to when it goes out. And usually it’s a scheduling link where you just click on a time and it coordinates between calendars, but you can also batch record. So, if I want to go on a podcast tour, and if I want to record them all on a Monday, in four hours, all in a row, then I can just schedule those on my calendar.

Alison Jones:                        You’d be on your knees by the end of that day, aren’t you? It’s actually quite hard work, I think, if you’re a guest particularly. I find it very energising being the host, but having been a guest… well, no, actually it’s fun, but I wouldn’t want to do four back to back.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. Well, I was a radio announcer, so I was used to doing six on air, so it’s quite easy for me to get in the groove and then I’m staying on. I’m in the zone, but that’s not for everybody. Some people will want to do them, “Okay, I can do one a day or one a week,” or whatever it is. And that’s the beauty of it. You don’t have to get up for a morning show, at 3:30 in the morning, to be on a breakfast show. If you’re better at nighttime, you can do it then. So, it’s kind of… I’m trying not to swear. It’s amazing.

Alison Jones:                        It’s very amazing.

Kelly Glover:                         It’s very amazing. It’s big and amazing. Yes. Because it is and I just love it.

Alison Jones:                        And you can do it in your pyjamas and flip flops, and all that kind of good stuff. So yes, it’s wonderful. I’m glad you said that. Quite a few podcasts are using YouTube as well these days, aren’t they?

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, a lot are using video, and even if it’s audio only, I will always come camera ready, or at least from the waist up, let’s say. I’ve been known to wear a onesy from the waist down, but business suit from the waist up. And that’s because, often, the host will do a chitty chat with you beforehand, camera on. And for me, I like using every element of the podcast to push out across media for marketing. So I’ll take a screenshot of myself and the host, and then I can put that out on Instagram, on Facebook saying, “Hey, I just recorded this. It’s coming up.”

                                                      So, for that opportunity, I would like to look camera ready. So I always will. And yes, you want to just look presentable. I equate it to would you show up to a job interview wearing a pair of shorts and a pair of thongs or flip flaps? Probably not. So, your voice needs to be great. Always have a good quality microphone, or at least don’t use the one that’s built into your laptop, and then always be camera ready. So you’ve got to think of this as a media. It is a media tour. Podcasts are a media tour, so act like it, is my advice.

Alison Jones:                        And it’s interesting. I was talking to Joanna Penn at the Frankfurt Book Fair, who’s obviously been podcasting nearly as long as you, since 2009, and she was saying that she has found a lot of people actually listening to podcasts on YouTube, as a discovery channel and while they’re doing something else, and even if there’s no video content on there, which I thought was fascinating. I never heard of that.

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, well YouTube’s the second biggest search engine. So, a lot of people are putting it on there because who knows how all the algorithms will go and scrape the data and get the keywords in that. And so I think it’s smart for people to do that.

                                                      And even with you being a guest on podcasts and with your own that we’re saying, all the show notes have keywords in there. So, those episodes will come up in search engines, because knowing Google, podcasts, they’re searchable in different ways than they used to be, and it’s evolving more and more. So, all that back catalogue with your name as a guest, and also Alison, your name as the host, and episode titles, is just going to make you more searchable in the long run.

Alison Jones:                        And what’s interesting as well, is obviously I always put the transcript of the interview up, but quite a lot of people do that, and so that’s another opportunity for you to get those keywords in there, for you to get those key phrases. The soundbites, as you said. I mean, they don’t just come spontaneously, usually, unless you’re really good. You have to have those seeded and prepared beforehand, don’t you?

Kelly Glover:                         Yes, so when we look at our clients at The Talent Squad agency, there’s three phases, and I think some of your author clients will have phase one pretty well done, because they’ve done the book. So, the first one is getting your messaging right, so that’s your messaging, your keywords like you said, the sound bites, your topic, and that’s pretty much the content of the book. So, you should be able to extract at least the chapter headings and they should be pretty close to talking points. And if you’re an author, you’ve already got your head shots, you’ve already got the book covers, you’ve got everything in place. So, you’ve got phase one, messaging, pretty much done.

                                                      Phase two is finding the shows and pitching the shows. That’s what we’ve spoken about before. Then the next part is doing the actual interview. I think people falter there because they’re like, “Oh, I’ll just wing it. It’s fine. I’m a good talker. I know the content. I’ll just jump in and do it.”

                                                      But like you said, you’ve got to really think about those keywords and mention them into the interview, because that’s what’s going to come up in the transcript. That is what all the… Who knows the technological monster that sweeps and does the SEO and all the algorithms, which we know change. Who knows how that works.

                                                      But you’ve got to get those into the interview to make sure that they show up later on and are in the show notes. So, you have to be strategic how many times you mentioned them, how many times you mentioned the book, what topics you’re mentioning in there.

                                                      What if the host hasn’t read your book? That is pretty likely to happen. So, therefore, you need to ask and answer your own questions and become the interviewer during the show. So, it’s like patting your head, rubbing your stomach, hopping on one foot, whistling while still… It’s a little bit like that. So, it takes practice, it really does, to do a really good interviewing, get it all going.

Alison Jones:                        And you still have to be smiling, because people can hear that in your voice.

Kelly Glover:                         It’s true. So, that’s why I also say, when people are like, “I want to be on Tim Ferris,” I’m like, “Awesome, but you need to start in smaller shows to get your runs on the board, so by the time you get there you’re going to nail it.” Because there’s so many things to nail. So, we say winging it is a waste. Make sure you’re always prepared, and then practise in private before you go public. So, there’s nothing wrong with making your sister interview, your parents, your coworker, and just even doing some smaller interviews so you get used to it, because you don’t want Tim Ferriss to be the first one and you mess it up.

Alison Jones:                        Chance would be a fine thing, but yes. Brilliant. And I think we got some soundbites in there. Absolutely beautiful. Lovely. You’re walking the talk brilliantly. Now, you haven’t written a book – and we could have a whole separate conversation about that, by the way, Kelly, but we won’t because we’ll run out of time – but if I was to ask you to give your best advice, your one best tip to a first time author who’s perhaps coming to the stage where they want to think about either podcasting as a way of helping them write their book or having written the book, getting onto podcasts, what would that be?

Kelly Glover:                         I would say do your preparation before you pitch. Don’t just do it willy nilly. All the things we’ve spoken about, making sure your topics are right, your angles are right and it’s a highly targeted pitch and email to the host.

Alison Jones:                        Brilliant. And you can’t say clearer than that. And you must’ve read a fair number of business books in your time because you’ve worked with a lot of authors. So, this is going to potentially alienate nearly all of them. Would you like to give me your business book recommendation?

Kelly Glover:                         Yes. And I actually went through your book and looked at the end part where you’ve got all the reference, the bibliography, and there are so many in there that I’ve also read. So, I suggest people look at that, and I’m going to give two that aren’t on the list, because I know that you’ve got good ones. So, one that I really love is called Let It Out, and that’s by Katie Dalebout.

Alison Jones:                        I have never heard of that. Tell me more.

Kelly Glover:                         So, it’s about journaling. Now, full disclosure, I don’t do the journaling things, but it asks you questions that you should ask yourself. And I find a lot of us experts, we’re good at helping other people, but not ourselves. I always am like, “I wish I could find a me to coach me, and ask me the right questions. Right? I’m sure you’re all like that too.

Alison Jones:                        Yep. You can’t coach yourself.

Kelly Glover:                         So, this is somebody else asking you questions so you can clarify, and it’s across a lot of different categories. So, you’re welcome to journal it if you want to, but sometimes I’ll just read it and be like, “Okay, I’m on the right track. Oh, that’s a good point. Yep. I really need to think about that.” So Let It Out, Katie Dalebout.

Alison Jones:                        I love that. I’m all over, I don’t really quite call it journaling, free writing or raw writing or something like that. But writing as a thinking tool, so underrated.

Kelly Glover:                         And the way I’ve came up with that to tell you, Alison, was I looked at my Amazon and thought, “Which are the books that I have sent to people?” Because if I think someone really needs a book, I won’t wait or anything. I’ll just be like, “Give me your address, and I’m going to Amazon and send it to you.” So that one and the other one is Pivot by Jenny Blake.

Alison Jones:                        Yes. Which is wonderful. I have read that one. Two fantastic recommendations there. Thank you. And also by women authors, which is wonderful because there’s not nearly enough of them still in business books, so thank you for addressing that imbalance. Now Kelly, people are going to want to find out more about you. If nothing else, they’re going to want to go and check out your amazing media kits as a model for what they need to be doing with their own. So, where should they go?

Kelly Glover:                         They should go to thetalentsquad.com/mediakit.

Alison Jones:                        Brilliant. And I’ll put that on the show notes, but I don’t think anybody can forget that, because it’s really straightforward. Kelly, it was an absolute joy talking to you. Thank you for putting up with my croaky voice. Thank you for just being the perfect guest. You have raised the bar incredibly and it was just such a pleasure.

Kelly Glover:                         Thank you. I’m sorry you sound croaky, but to my ears, it does sound lovely. Would you mind reading us a few chapters of Harry Potter while you’re out, Alison? I would love to listen to.

Alison Jones:                        All right, I’ll stop recording now, and then you stay on and we’ll do a little bit of a bedtime story. Okay?

Kelly Glover:                         Okay, great. Thank you!


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