Episode 411 – How to get on podcasts with Michelle Glogovac

Michelle GlogovacAt the risk of going a bit meta, this is a brilliant conversation podcast about how brilliant podcast conversations are…

Michelle Glogovac is an author and host of the My Simplified Life podcast, and a frequent guest on other podcasts. She’s passionate about the special, intimate connection that podcasts create between authors and their readers, and the triple win of a good conversation: great content for the host, great marketing for the guest, great insights for the listener.

If you’re sitting there waiting to be asked to be a guest on a podcast, then that stops today: discover exactly how to pitch yourself effectively to your perfect podcast host. And if you’re thinking about hosting a podcast of your own, then this is just pure gold.

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The mlg collective site: https://themlgcollective.com/

Michelle’s site: https://michelleglogovac.com/

Michelle on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michelleglogovac/

Alison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-alison-jones/

The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge: http://proposalchallenge.com/

The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Substack: https://extraordinarybusinessbooks.substack.com/

The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/

Alison Jones: Michelle Glogovac is the podcast matchmaker, an award winning publicist, host of the My Simplified Life podcast, and author of How to Get On Podcasts. She’s helped entrepreneurs, authors, non profits, and advocates hone their storytelling abilities, grow their businesses, and elevate themselves as thought leaders on over a thousand podcasts.

And she’s coached 14,000 authors, I’m guessing that’s an approximation, through the process of creating and launching a podcast book tour through the Nonfiction Writers Association.

So first of all, welcome, Michelle. It’s great to have you here.

Michelle Glogovac: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. I could listen to you all day.

Alison Jones: Let’s not do that. That makes such a dull podcast for everybody else.

 It’s brilliant when you have a podcaster on. Well, partly it’s a little bit anxiety making, because they’re going to be judging you, obviously. But it’s also really exciting, because it’s just like, Oh, I feel like I’m chatting to kind of a buddy down the podcast pub.

Michelle Glogovac: There’s no judgment. I promise you that.

Alison Jones: Now, you had in the book, which I really enjoyed, you’ve got this fabulous phrase, ‘podcasts are a life changing medium’. And I sort of was like circling it going, yes, absolutely. But I mean, you’re kind of preaching to the choir here, but just, for people who’ve maybe been thinking about starting their own podcast or have been a bit lackadaisical about going on other people’s podcasts, why do you say that?

What is it about podcasts that’s just so amazing?

Michelle Glogovac: I love the fact that first of all, they’re free to listen to. So they’re accessible for literally everyone and anyone who has internet access, because you don’t even need a phone to listen to one. And they all have something that inspire, motivate, or educate us on every topic under the sun, whether you feel like true crime or to be entertained with a comedy podcast, or you want to hear that somebody’s gone through a grief portion of their life and how they overcame it, or how someone launched their business, how someone wrote their book.

There are all of these stories that we get to listen to, that let us know that we’re actually not alone on this journey. Even when it feels like we’re alone, no matter what it is, somebody else has been through it. They’ve gotten through it. They’re sharing their story and now we’re so privileged to get to listen to it and really, you know, take tools and tips and knowledge that they’ve already done for us.

They’ve done all the work and now they’re sharing it with us so that we can now implement it into our own lives and go forward. And so that’s why I think they’re absolutely life changing because we get access to all of this information and for free.

Alison Jones: Yes, I mean, it is, it’s bonkers when you put it like that. And there’s something very intimate about the format as well, isn’t there? It’s much more human than a lot of the ways that we consume information. And more, as you say, it’s based around stories and it’s more in depth. And it’s, you know, if you’re kind of consuming social media and constantly feeling like you’re in a firehose, the pace of it is a bit different.

Michelle Glogovac: You’re essentially listening, eavesdropping in on a conversation between two people. And I love, I am the biggest eavesdropper. So if you see me in a restaurant, chances are I am listening in on what’s going on in your conversation. And by all means, I then relay it to my husband. I’m like, so you will never guess what these people over here just said. This is what happened. It’s so good. And you’ll have to bring me back over to our table because that’s where my head has disappeared to.

So for a podcast, you get to listen in, you know, on purpose. And we get to talk like two friends just having a cup of coffee and not thinking about who is going to listen in.

So it’s, I mean, it’s really cool when you think about it in that odd way that I do. But yes, you’re listening in on someone else’s conversation and you’re getting to glean all of the information and knowledge and education from that conversation. So it is simply an intimate conversation between two people that the rest of us get to eavesdrop in on.

Alison Jones: And that’s what’s super cool about it from a listener’s point of view, if you like, and why podcasts rock and everybody, well, I mean, clearly, if you’re listening to this, hello, you’ve discovered podcasts.

But tell us why it’s so cool from, well, I want to get the guest perspective and the host perspective.

Let’s do the host first. Why is it good to host a podcast, other than you get to ask lots of questions.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes, yes, I always say that my show, I do it because I’m selfish. I interview people that I want to get to know, whether it’s big people that later I get questioned, how’d you get them? I’m like, I asked. It was pretty simple. But then you get to ask them those questions of how do you do this? Like, give me a free coaching session. Here, I’m in the hot seat, what would you tell me to do? And they tell you, you know, I mean, it’s amazing. You get the personal knowledge and coaching and whatever it is…

Alison Jones: … and relationship…

Michelle Glogovac: …because you’re hosting it. Yes and then you’re also building an audience.

Your audience is trusting you and they want to hear more from you. And these are people, you know, they’re listening every single week. They’re waiting to hear from you. And so you now have that community and that audience built in for yourself. Whereas the guest, you’re coming on and you already have that trust extended to you because the audience trusts what the host is going to say. That’s why they show up every week to download the episode and listen.

You automatically get that trust. Now you also have an audience, so they’re warm already but they are people that you don’t have to go out and find. They’re already there. They’re built in. You had to find the host and you had to let the host know that you have knowledge to share, that you’re going to come on and it’s not going to be a sales pitch of your book or your product or your service.

You want to share what you know with the audience. And so, that extension of trust and of, Oh, you know, if the host is interested in you, then I’m probably going to be interested in you as well. That’s amazing. And then it goes out to social media and it becomes an even bigger audience and the ripple effect just continues to grow as you share it and the host shares it.

So it just, it has immense possibilities.

Alison Jones: It does and you make the point there, which is so powerful, is that it’s kind of complete, there’s no downside here. This is all win. So podcast hosts, guess what? They need guests. Otherwise, there’s no podcast and guests benefit from the oxygen and the reach to people that they don’t yet already know, which of course on social media is harder to achieve.

And the listener gets new perspectives and new stories. So it’s kind of win, win, win situation, which is pretty cool.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes. The downside is it takes time and money, right?

Alison Jones: Right, but actually not that much time and not that much money.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes, not that much money. And that’s really what I try to emphasize. It doesn’t really take, it’s a low barrier entry to get into podcasting. It truly is. Even the equipment is less than a hundred dollars. So yes.

Alison Jones: In fact, you can start with that, I think when I started, I was literally using my Mac book mic. I mean, you know, and your mic on your iPhone is really good. You really do not need huge investment at the start. If you decide it’s for you, brilliant, get yourself a nice mic, but until then just, just play.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes, Just use your voice, get out there.

Alison Jones: Yes.

Michelle Glogovac: And it’s going to be horrible at first, I promise you. You know, my first interview, I had all of these scripted questions, even though it was a close friend of mine. I’m like, Oh, it was horrible. And now 224 episodes later, I’m like, Hey, let’s wing it. Let’s see. And when I say wing it, I’m actually reading the book of everyone who’s been on, so I’ve gotten to know them.

But I just like to see where it all goes and for it to really be a natural conversation of whatever question pops up into my head, I’m going to ask it.

Alison Jones: And it’s the listening that allows you to then ask the next question, I was exactly the same. I had my kind of list of seven questions I was going to ask. And I was, you know, looking at the time going, how am I going to get question five in? I wasn’t really listening.

And it’s only when you kind of let go of that and you go, actually, I trust in my own resourcefulness. I trust in my guests. I trust in the power of the conversation and the question and the answer.

And then suddenly it becomes a living thing and it’s so much more inviting to listen to, I think.

Michelle Glogovac: Absolutely. Yes and for me, I take it as I want to get to know the person and we’ll get into this I’m sure when we talk more about becoming a guest on podcasts is, you know, I want to get to know the person in all of my interviews. And I had an interview this week that was with a woman, the pie lady, she makes pies out of book covers and she’s been on The Today Show. She’s been on Good Morning America. She’s a big deal. And I had a listener reach out to me last night and she said, I have followed this woman. I have watched her interviews and you are the first person to ask how she came into this as her career. I had no idea what her backstory was. And this is why I listened because you care about the person and you give us their actual story, not simply, Oh, you make these pretty pies. Like that’s cool. It’s really about getting to know them.

Yes. Yes. And nobody had asked that question, I guess. And I didn’t realize it. I was just curious because I didn’t know the answer.

Alison Jones: You said something earlier about approaching a podcast host to become a guest, and I’m going to bet that there’s people out there going, can you do that? Is that, can you do that? I thought you had to be invited. Tell us more about that.

Michelle Glogovac: You can absolutely pitch yourself and there’s homework that’s involved on your part before you even send out that pitch. From getting yourself ready, that’s even before you look at the podcast, but making sure that you know what you’re going to talk about and not being generic on it. Not saying I know how to write a book, not saying I’m a six figure entrepreneur.

You have to get really specific on who you are, where you’ve been, what your journey is like. Give those topics titles. And I ask a bunch of questions in my book of things that you can think about to create those speaking topics and then create a media kit for yourself. It’s just a simple one pager, but it has your bio and your headshot. All of the topics. It’s the one stop of all of the information that someone would need. And you should hyperlink everything into it.

You can use Canva. So they can click on it and simply get to wherever you are without Googling you. I always say if you give the host homework, then it’s an automatic no.

Don’t make them Google you unless they want to. You should give them all the information. And once you figure out who is it that you’re trying to reach. So especially for authors, I get a lot of clients who say, I want to be on all of the literary podcasts. And my question is, is that who’s going to buy your book?

Is it going to be, you have a beach read, is it really going to be the people who listen to the literary podcasts who are going to buy your beach read? No. Is it women who are 35 and over? Well, where do you think they’re listening? Let’s look at those podcasts. And so defining who your audience is, is really important.

Just as it is in writing a book, it is when you’re looking at podcasts.

Alison Jones: Yes.

Michelle Glogovac: Then, researching those podcasts. And by researching, I don’t just mean looking them up, finding them and sending a pitch. I mean, listening to them. Read the show description. Make sure that they take guests. Don’t waste anybody’s time by sending a pitch to a solo episode show.

And it happens, trust me. You know, but listening to an episode or two and not the most recent one, because you’re going to use that in your pitch to let the host know I’ve listened to your show. I’ve enjoyed it. Here’s the specific episode that I listened to and what I gained from it. So they know you’re not copying and pasting to every single person.

You’re really genuinely showing up as yourself and saying, I did listen. And this is what I really enjoyed. And it also gives you the opportunity because you’re going to listen again before you’re a guest to see if there’s anything that the host does every single time. We all know that at the end, they’re all going to ask you, where else can people find you?

It’s literally how we all end our shows. But is there another question? I had a client who ended every single episode with ‘and if someone were to play you in a movie of your life, who would it be?’ Everyone was surprised by it. Every single guy. I’m like, did you not…

Alison Jones: not listen.

Michelle Glogovac: she’s had a hundred episodes and she asked the same question.

And that’s how you can tell if somebody’s actually listened. I mean there are times like you and I had discussed that there are certain questions where you’ve looked at it, you’ve listened, and then it goes blank because you’re having this conversation. You’re so into it and you’re like, what was I going to say?

Oh yes, but that’s totally different than being surprised by the question that’s being asked when it’s asked every single time.

Alison Jones: And I might add to that actually, because I get a lot of pitches, I’m sure you do too, and a few people have obviously kind of read that memo and they’ll say, Oh, I enjoyed your interview with X and the way they said this. And then they go and paste in the rest, and there’s no segue. There’s no connection. There’s no, listen, you know, this is why I think this person would be good for you. So, it’s not just a tick box exercise. You just, you have to be real. You have to be authentic.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes. I can’t stand the word authentic because I feel if we have to use it, then it means that we’re not really being authentic. So just show up as yourself. And then you’re being authentic, you know, if this is how you write an email, then write it, but connect it and copy and paste, there’s no room for it.

Alison Jones: There’s no room for that. There’s no room for those sort of tactics that are just so transparent.

Michelle Glogovac: I feel like the podcasting industry is the wild, wild West. We have no standards per se, you know, just like we mentioned that anybody can start one. It’s easy, which is a blessing and a curse.

Alison Jones: Great thing.

Michelle Glogovac: You know, and at the same time you have people who are starting them and you’re like, ah, I don’t know if you should have, that’s why it’s good and it’s bad.

But I think that we need to create these standards to say that we won’t accept a pitch that’s copy and paste. We won’t accept that, you know, you showed up and you weren’t prepared at all, or you’re not sharing these episodes with your audience to make it so that it is a professional industry and these are the standards that you have to achieve to, in order for you to be on podcasts.

Alison Jones: That’s a really interesting idea. It’s sort of like a contract, isn’t it, between the guest and the host.

Michelle Glogovac: I’m actually seeing more and more of those. There was one interview that I booked for myself yesterday and by doing the appointment, there was a box that you will share within seven days somewhere on your social media. I saw on Threads the other day that a host is going to put in her contracts that you have to share it within 30 days. And I go back and forth with it. I agree that we should be sharing it, putting a time limit on it. It’s a little, especially seven days. And here’s why I say seven days, because as an author, I did, my whole launch was around podcasts, and so I had a lot come out at the same time and I did acknowledge them, but I said, I’m going to do a blog post on it. I’m going to add it into my feed, but I can’t do that to my audience of two posts a day, a post every single day of, look where I was, look where I was, look where I was.

I have to give them, the content that they’re coming for. Not just to say, look, I’ve been on this show. So, you know, I think in that sense, but I also hope that in communicating that, the hosts will understand it’s coming, I just can’t do five different podcast interviews and post about them in the same week. It’s overkill.

Alison Jones: I don’t think I’d enjoy somebody who demanded of me. I mean, of course I’m going to share on socials, but you know, they’re my socials. I don’t think I’d like that. It is, it’s a delicate contract, isn’t it?

But I want to pick, I want to talk about books particularly. And I particularly want to talk about the book podcast tour idea, which I think is genius. But before we do that, just more generally, what do you see as the relationship, the synergy, between books and podcasts?

Michelle Glogovac: I feel that podcasts allow us as listeners to get to know the authors. You know, I love to compare them to, I feel that authors are celebrities in their own right. My cherished possessions are the autographed books on my bookshelf. I absolutely love it. And yet, when I’m walking down the street, I have no idea if the person across from me is an author because they’re not on my TV screen all the time, or I didn’t see them in the movies. And I literally ran into an author in a New York lobby, hotel lobby, and we’re chatting it up. And she’s like, Oh, I had a book just to come out. And I’m like, Oh, mine came out too. And that was kind of it.

And then as I sat down, I Googled her and went, Oh my gosh, her book is on my Kindle right now, like right now. And I didn’t connect the two. And so I feel like us getting the opportunity to listen to an author, to hear what their story is, to really connect personally in what part of them is in their books?

You know, how did they learn to write this way or what’s their ritual? Or, you know, what was their path to getting to where they are? It’s so intimate, of course, again, but it’s magical because we’re getting to know the person who wrote these words that we’ve fallen in love with. So those are the two connectors that I think are so great for an author to be able to reach more readers by going on a podcast and not having to travel all around the country is also amazing because we saw during COVID the world shut down. Now you couldn’t do book signings. So how were you going to get the word out? Was it social media? Okay, but what about getting on podcasts?

And that’s really what launched me into, I need to create The Podcast Book Tour so that authors can still reach more and more readers. We get to know them, but now you can reach people by sitting in your home and showing up for 30 to 60 minutes and then you’re done. You didn’t have to go pay for it because, as you know, most authors we’re paying for our own marketing and getting out there. Well, now you can just sit at home and do this and reach people in the same way that you would have.

It’s probably even better. You’re saving money than getting on an airplane, and a hotel and going from signing to signing.

Alison Jones: So if somebody’s thinking, this sounds amazing, I am here for this, how do you organise yourself a podcast book tour?

Michelle Glogovac: It’s very similarly to how I said you were going to start off with pitching, you know, and really get down some topics that are not only about the book. One topic should be the book, but you should also then talk about yourself because as a podcast host, we’re interviewing you, not the book. So do not pitch the book, as wonderful as it may be, and I get these pitches all the time of this new book is out and I’m like, and, you know, can the author speak about it?

Is there something unique about the author that I want to learn about? So, you know, share yourself and I create expanded media kits when it comes to authors so that it’s not only the one page, but then there’s more information about the book, where you can buy it, what’s the synopsis of it, the ISBN numbers, all the facts, and then the blurbs too.

So you can see, you know, you got these blurbs for a reason, you worked hard for them, so promote them as well in your media kit and then go tackle who is your ideal reader and where do you think they’re showing up. listening to podcasts. So it’s really the same process and just making sure you start three to four months before your launch.

 We don’t know when some of these shows will be booking and when they record and then when they actually go live. So I always say three to four months is a good starting point to start getting those pitches out.

Alison Jones: And then when you’re curating that, when you’re telling people about the tour, what makes it a book tour, if you like, rather than just a series of appearances on podcasts.

Michelle Glogovac: We try to get them all to go live around when your book is launching. Yes, as much as we can. I’ve had people though who say I want them all to be, you know, pre sales because I think it’s pre sale heavy. So it’s really up to you, the author, of when you want to do it, but we’re doing a lot of interviews leading up to that pub date and around the pub date versus ongoing, just kind of sprinkling them, we’re going hard right in. So that would be the big difference.

Alison Jones: And it really occurs to me, if you’re doing that kind of concentration, it’s kind of working vertically and horizontally almost, isn’t it? You know, you’ve got that concentration on your own social media feeds and there’ll be some overlap with people, but you’re also going out wide because each podcast has got a different listenership, a different audience.

So yes, you’re getting the best of both worlds.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes, that’s the goal.

Alison Jones: I want to talk to you about writing as well, Michelle, because. Side note, I actually started this podcast, however many years it was ago now, because I wasn’t writing my book. And so I thought if I started a podcast, A, I’d have to write the book because I’d be telling people I was doing it, and B, I’d get really interesting people to talk to and therefore I’d get content.

And it worked like a charm.

But I know that there are, we’ve been talking about, you know, promoting the book, the other end of that. But how do you, write alongside hosting, if you like, or guesting, what’s the kind of relationship, which do you prefer, and what do you love about writing, and what do you hate about it, and what would you rather be sitting on a podcast doing?

Michelle Glogovac: Oh, that’s a tough one. And it’s funny because my book idea came from interviewing a book coach. And I told her, I want to write a book. Where do I start? I don’t even know. And she said, what you know, and what you’re known for. And that’s when the light bulb hit. And from there, I was completely inspired to outline my topics, which chapter’s going where, and just getting that done.

And I think that what I loved was…. that’s a tough one because I really, I enjoyed it, but at the same time I also put pressure on myself of deadlines and I wanted to get it out as quickly as possible because I know that the topic was timely. I knew that I needed to be the first to get a book like this out there.

So I think that that part was probably the part I hated, was I was constantly putting pressure on myself of, you have to get a thousand words a day. You have got to crank this out. But I loved putting my own spin to it. I think that for me, I thought that you had to be very formal and then I allowed my voice to come through in it. So I think that was a lot of fun too.

And I know one of the questions you’re going to ask me at the end and I don’t want to give away my answer at the end because it’s one of my favorite parts is this of allowing your personality and your voice to come out in it. And that was fun to take real life examples of this is what I’ve done. This is what I’ve worked on or comparing it to the dinner party and how being a guest at someone’s home to have dinner is just like being a podcast guest, being invited to your home, which is the show and showing up and bringing value just as you would if you were going to someone’s home for dinner.

So it was fun for me that I really enjoyed that aspect of doing it.

The publishing part was just a nightmare. So that’s different from the writing. But

Alison Jones: Awkward!

Michelle Glogovac: No, so my publisher it’s McGraw Hill and it’s no secret, they shut down the business department. In the middle of, yes, so I lost my editor. I lost my editor midway and then I lost the rest of the team December 31st and my book launched January 19th. So it was a little, it was different than most.

Alison Jones: I didn’t know that backstory. Ouch. Yes, no, that is hideous. And it’s really hard, isn’t it? Because you spend so long, just you and your book, just you and your manuscript and your ideas. And it’s pure and beautiful. And then suddenly, it’s kind of not your book anymore. And people are mauling around with the typesetting and the cover design and it’s not right.

And there’s deadlines. Yes, it’s an odd gear change.

Michelle Glogovac: It is. Yes.

And then you have these people who are all around you and then poof, they’re gone in the middle of the night. And you’re like, okay, so I’m alone again with my book.

Alison Jones: Did I dream it?

Michelle Glogovac: Yes. Were you all real, helping me for a minute?

Alison Jones: Oh, that’s awful. What a shame.

So I am going to ask you the question, which I think will allow you to release the answer that’s sort pent up in you for the moment.

Michelle, what’s your best tip for somebody who’s writing their first business book?

Michelle Glogovac: To really allow your personality and your voice to come out. I mean, I thought about it and I wrote it down too because I first went, Oh, you should outline, Oh, you should do this. And I went, no, you should put your personality into it because I think that business books kind of get a bad rap of, you know, Oh, it’s boring.

And I always, maybe this is just me and my, you know, fear of what people will think of, Oh, my book’s on how to get on podcasts. And I go, but it’s not stuffy. It’s actually a good read and it’s fun and because I allowed myself to come out in the book. So I think that if you allow yourself, you know, to let your personality shine, and it’s going to make it more entertaining, people will want to read it.

So, don’t be afraid to be yourself in the book, whatever that means, go with it because we’ll enjoy it as a reader much more.

Alison Jones: And it was really, right from the get go, you’re talking about the analogy of the types of friends you have and you know, the sort of conversations that you have and it makes it so relatable and so human and you’re very much in there and you’re kind of giving shout outs to your friends and stuff. I was like, Oh, this is… this is nice.

Michelle Glogovac: It’s been a test. I’m like, who has read the book? I want to know.

Alison Jones: Did I pass?

Michelle Glogovac: …you catch your name? Oh, how you’re in the audio book sample, it’s only five minutes. Have you listened? You know.

Alison Jones: How funny. It’s like Easter eggs for all your friends.

Michelle Glogovac: Yes. Yes.

Alison Jones: Brilliant. And I also, as you know, ask all my guests to recommend us a book.

Michelle Glogovac: I went through all of them and I would say, and this might be an odd one, but Losing My Virginity by Sir Richard Branson.

Alison Jones: Yes, of course.

Michelle Glogovac: It is a long read, but it is fascinating to see all the twists and turns he’s made, all of the decisions. I absolutely loved it. I’ve gotten to meet him in person, so I told him, I’m like, I know who you are now because I’ve read your life story.

But it’s absolutely fascinating to see how he makes his decisions and the people around him. So I think it’s a really good one, especially for those who are considering, you know, do I pivot? Do I make a change? And to go from, you know, a record store to airplanes and cruise ships and everything in between, it’s just a great example that you don’t have to stay in that one lane forever and you can really branch out.

So that would be my recommendation.

Alison Jones: Didn’t you tell Richard Branson you liked him over dinner? Am I misremembering? You did. Yes, I love that.

Michelle Glogovac: I did. I said, I like you and we’re friends now because I’ve read your life story. And he said, well, then you have to tell me about yourself so that I can like you back.

Alison Jones: The power, the power of just human connection and vulnerability, isn’t that brilliant?

Michelle Glogovac: It is. It really is. Yes.

And if you just show up and be yourself, you know, not everyone will like you and that is okay. You know, you’re not going to like everyone either, but you know, don’t let it stifle who you are and simply just be yourself. Yes.

Alison Jones: And if you like someone, tell them. I think that’s a good message to take.

Michelle Glogovac: I do, I do, and it’s so awkward, it’s great.

Alison Jones: Awesome. I like you, Michelle. This has been such a great conversation. That’s really…

Michelle Glogovac: I actually had a guest the other day go, I really like you, could we actually be friends and exchange phone numbers? And I went, Oh, finally, someone’s the first one and it’s not me being weird. Like, yes, we’re so friends. I appreciate that so much.

Alison Jones: Brilliant.

So Michelle, you’re going to get an avalanche of people just basically looking you up and going, Hey, can we hang out? I want to be friends with you. Where are they going to find you?

Michelle Glogovac: Where can you find me? I’m on all of the social media platforms. My website is themlgcollective.com or you can go to michelleglogovac.com. I’m on Instagram, michelleglogovac. I’m on Threads, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m in all of the places, just search the name and I’m the only one that will come up.

Alison Jones: Yes, I’m feeling slightly bitter about that, but yes, I will put those links, well, I’ll put some of those links, there’s quite a lot there, on the show notes at extraordinarybusinessbooks.com. If you’re puzzling over how to spell that, it’s pretty much exactly as it sounds, so yes, glogovac, you’ll get it.

Great, it was so good to talk to you Michelle, thank you so much for your time today,

Michelle Glogovac: Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

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