Episode 42 – The Naked Leader with David Taylor

David TaylorPerhaps the most powerful thing you can do as the writer of a business book is to cut through the fluff and change people’s lives. Many of us feel uncomfortable making grand claims for our ideas. We hedge them around with qualifiers and we’re anxious to cover off all the objections we imagine readers might have, or all the various different ways our message might apply to people in different situations.

And very often, the message gets lost along the way.

David Taylor writes in a completely different way to any other writer I’ve interviewed. He calls it predictive persuasion, and he’s refreshingly unapologetic about the simplicity of his message and the directness of his style.

Here’s why – he cares more about what people do than what people think of him.

‘I don’t really mind what they think of The Naked Leader or the message. I just want people to fulfil their own potential in their own way in the very short time that we each have on this planet and it is a very short time indeed.’

There’s so much here to inspire and challenge you about how and why you write. And even more to challenge you about how you live.


The Naked Leader website: http://www.nakedleader.com/

David on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thenakedleader

To sign up for the next 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge: https://alisonjones.leadpages.co/proposal-challenge/

For the Year of the Book workshop on 19 January: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/2017-the-year-of-the-book-tickets-30296772462

To continue the conversation in the Extraordinary Business Book Club Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/

Alison Jones:  Hello and welcome to The Extraordinary Business Book Club and today, I’m here with David Taylor, who is one of the world’s top business coaches. He’s focused particularly on leadership and change, he’s honorary professor of leadership at Warwick University Business School, and he’s the author of a book that keeps coming up in The Extraordinary Business Book Club recommendations: The Naked Leader. His most recent book is called How to be Successful by Being Yourself, which one reviewer described as, “an interactive adventure.” In fact, there’s quite a lot of interactivity in the books, I wanted to talk about that as well. Welcome to the club, David.

David Taylor: Thank you very much indeed, Alison, it’s great to be here.

Alison Jones:  It’s fantastic to have you on. Now before we explore what it is that makes How to be Successful by Being Yourself so unusual, I think it’d be good just to put it in context. Tell me a little bit about how your books fit into your business generally and particularity what The Naked Leader has meant to you.

David Taylor: My background, Alison, is the corporate world. My background is actually in information technology so I’ve probably spent many years of my life making things very complex and now I’m on my redemption period to make things simple.

Alison Jones:  Much harder of course, much harder.

David Taylor: Much harder to make things simple, yeah, simple never equals easy, otherwise our meetings would only last for a short time in organizations. In 2002, I wrote a book called The Naked Leader and the reason I wrote the book, Alison, is because I couldn’t understand any of the books that were out there. I really am just an ordinary guy, I’m just an ordinary guy who’s discovered some stuff and so I wrote a book which was originally called The Ten Second Truth, the idea being you can change anything in your life in under 10 seconds and I believe you can change anything in your life immediately by the way. We were watching Jamie Oliver on TV and my daughter, Olivia, nine, pointed at Jamie Oliver and said, “Naked Chef,” and pointed at me and said, “Naked Leader,” so that’s where the title came from.

Naked Leader has changed everything in our lives. It became the fastest selling business book in the world, it went to number one on Amazon within minutes of publishing and it just changed everything. We started a company off the back of it. We had inquires on day one from Tesco, Terry Leahy at Tesco, to buy thousands of copies and from many other people as well and it changed everything.

Alison Jones:  It’s so interesting isn’t it when you say the simplicity piece because actually you are quite iconoclastic in that – you do say, “Look, this is the formula for success,” which a lot of people use to promote themselves and create some sort of complex intellectual property that they then become known for. You sort of demystify it don’t you? You just say basically, you know, “Know what you want, know where you are, and just do it,” and in a sense it’s sort of the opposite of what most people try and do when they create a book and create that distinctive approach to things.

David Taylor: Yes, it’s slightly bizarre, Alison. I mean, The Naked Leader has two different messages depending on where you are in the world. In America it’s very much, “Rah rah,” and I’m not dissing that by the way, it’s very inspiring message. In the Far East, we’re very big in China, the book is huge in China, as is the company, it’s much more spiritual and so I suppose there’s three messages. The third one is sort of half way between the two and the UK message is really, “If there’s something you want to change in your life or your team or your organization, please get off your backside and do something about it and stop going on and on that you’re going to. Stop talking about it because you’re giving everyone a headache, not least yourself.” That’s kind of the cynical message.

It is actually quite a cynical book. A lot of people are very kind about the book saying it’s very inspiring and it’s changed their lives and by the way, I’ve written three other Naked books since as well. How I can manage to write four times 80,000 words saying, “Be the very best that you already are, there’s nothing wrong with you,” still beats me how I’m able to do that. I really don’t know how I do it. I have lots and lots of people and I have lots of stories, I have lots of people submitting stuff and ideas and I meet some extraordinary people, particularity through The Prince’s Trust, which is our chosen charity. Every month I do an event for 30 young ambassadors in The Prince’s Trust, who’ve had horrendous difficulties in their background and getting these people to realize their future can be different from the past is very, very, very inspiring and a wonderful experience. By the way, these people know far more about persistence and overcoming adversity and everything else than I do.

Coming back to your original question, I wrote the book really because I couldn’t understand any of the other books and I wanted to get this message – that it’s okay to be yourself and let others be the same – to as many people as I could in the world. No, you’re right, I don’t own the intellectual property on Naked Leader, I don’t own the intellectual property on this message, we have built some intellectual property to work in organizations but generally speaking, the message is very simple and I want everyone in the world to hear it.

Alison Jones:  What is different, what made David Taylor’s The Naked Leader an international success, when actually as you say, what you’ve written here, it’s sort of the basis of coaching really, isn’t’ it? It’s got clarity about goals and clarity about where you are and fixing things to do so there’s something really powerful. It’s quite iconoclastic but what about the package that goes around that to make it land with so many people? How do you get the attention, I guess I’m saying?

David Taylor: Well, I think the book became successful because Jimmy Young on the Radio Two Today program mentioned it during his programme, it was featured in The Daily Mirror because we give a lot of our money to charities and it was featured in The Daily Mirror on the day it published. A professor of leadership at a business school in the UK, I won’t say which one, he knows who he is, sent an email to 31,000 students telling them it was the most dangerous business book every written, they must not buy this book…

Alison Jones:  Brilliant.

David Taylor: It was fantastic for him to do that, I love him so much, he can’t stand it… Those things all conspired to get the book to be number one and changed our lives. Since then we’ve started a company called Naked Leader, it’s run by a lady called Rosalind Howard, she runs it brilliantly. I’m the founder, we have 187 coaches in the UK, they’re all independents by the way, none of them work for us, and we draw those coaches together when we want to go and work in where we choose or when we are chosen to work in big organizations. We’ve developed the idea without losing the simplicity around how it can apply to individuals, teams, and organizations. We’re very fortunate, Alison, we can count Ford and Scanska and Veolia and The Phoenix Group and many, many other household names as our clients, so we’re very lucky.

Alison Jones:  Three things really strike me in that. One is, well done that PR department. This is where the PR piece really comes in, isn’t it? It just gets the attention and gets the attention of the people who were interested in reading the book, creates the curiosity and then they go and read it so that’s really interesting. Also, it really shows that there’s an appetite for it because all the PR in the world, if people aren’t interested in hearing your message, they’re not going to pick up on it. The fact that it is so simple obviously taps into something. People are desperate for simplicity and clarity I think.

The other thing that strikes me is that taking it upwards so not leaving it with the book but saying, “Okay there’s something here, where else can we take that?” and allowing people to come and engage with you kind of one to one or on behalf of their companies and work with them creating the services on top of it. We talk about those three things quite a lot in this show but it’s interesting to see them come together like that.

David Taylor: Yes, I think that really nails it. On the PR point, it’s a very polarized book. The reason it’s polarized is that some human beings find it very inspiring. The basic message of the book, as I’ve said, is, “There’s nothing wrong with you, everything you need to achieve anything you want you already have within you.” There’s many things we can’t do, this books around focusing on what you can. This is a very polarizing message because about half the people think, “Yeah, I could achieve more,” and they’re quite inspired and the other half, who think, “Oh my goodness,” you know, it’s a push back to that. They don’t believe it, they think it’s almost insulting that they’re not achieving what they could do in their lives and they hate the message because it’s actually quite a frightening message. It’s quite scary to believe you can achieve anything you want in your life. It really is.

The second thing you say around, combining your second message, everything you said in your second part is about spirituality, if I can use that word, and it’s very interesting that as technology has developed and as these sort of, if one may say evil things have happened in the world in terms of the extraordinary number of wars that are actually going on at the moment, there’s a huge spiritual revolution, if I can use that general word. I’m not just talking religion or one religion or anything like that, I’m talking about people’s desire to ask and answer bigger questions about who they are, why they’re here. Somehow what we’ve managed to tap into is this idea that on the day you’re born, naked, you have everything you need to achieve anything you want in your life and on the day you die, naked, and that’s stretching it a bit of course by saying that, you wonder whether you achieved it or not.

Of course, in organizations, I suppose on reflection it’s not that surprising that organizations embrace this message because organizations are groups of people and the one thing that organizations probably have never managed to master is getting their people to want to do what they need them to do. Want to do it, not tell them, you’ve got to set your people free and it’s amazing what they’ll achieve for you. I think you’re absolutely right, those three things are really fascinating.

By the way, Alison, I’m learning all the time. I’m learning from this call, I’ll learn from the feedback to this call, I learn every day I meet people. Naked Leader is not a stand alone, static message, it’s a constantly evolving message and I’m always interested in what works and what doesn’t work. That’s an understatement, Alison, I’m obsessed with only one thing, what always works with human beings, no matter what their past, no matter what their education, no matter anything else, what always works? I often say, “I only have one skill, I know why people do what they do,” and that’s because I’ve been researching it all my life and that’s what absolutely fascinates me, why people do what they do.

Alison Jones:  I think that’s interesting as well because often when I’m talking to people in the early stages of writing their book, they see it as almost like a monument, erecting a sort of visibility beacon to say, “I am the thought leader, I am the go to person in this area,” and it’s quite refreshing to hear an author who transcends that in a sense. You’re just saying actually, “This is what I think right now, here’s some stuff that I know is useful, and next year there’ll be something different that I’ve learned that I can write about,” and that sense that it doesn’t stop here.

David Taylor: Yes, I think my fundamental premise will never change, which is be yourself and let others be the same. I think that will never change however there’s lots of variations within that, there’s lots of how to’s, there’s lots of cultural differences, lots of diversity differences that we’re always learning. Somehow we found a trump card, especially in organizations, Alison, where you’ve got large groups of people. Our message is basically, “Look, we don’t mind whether you believe what we say, just do something and see if it works and if you do the opposite of what we say, we don’t care, just as long as it helps you move closer to your outcomes. ”

It kind of cuts through all the discussion or the debate or the disagreement that we have in all these too long and too many meetings and everyone disagrees with each other and nothing ever gets done. We’ve kind of got the ultimate excuse, I really don’t care what people think of me, Alison, I don’t really mind what they think of the Naked Leader or the message. I just want people to fulfil their own potential in their own way in the very short time that we each have on this planet and it is a very short time indeed.

Alison Jones:  Yes, you see the question I’m about to ask now sounds really trivial in comparison to that so thank you for setting the context, but I’m going to ask it anyway. You talk about the sense that it could apply in so many different arenas, and of course you’ve written several Naked Leader spin off type things, a series. You could carry on doing that forever, couldn’t you, because the applications are limitless but what made you switch brand, if you like, and create a book that doesn’t so much play on The Naked Leader idea but it’s just that how to be successful by being yourself, what was the thinking behind that? Is it for a different set of people or why change it?

David Taylor: Because once The Naked Leader was established as more of a business book even though it’s got a lot of personal stuff in there and as I say, organizations are collections of people, I think I got more down the line of so The Naked Coach, and I’ve written several books that are more around entrepreneurism and business and all of them had a strand running through them, which was be yourself. Also, I developed an idea that I’d been working on while writing these books and I just thought, and to be honest with you, you can only have so much naked can’t you, Alison? I mean how many other books are there out there. There are so many books called naked this or naked that and I suppose in a way I just had to… I’m very fortunate to have reached the stage of being well known enough to be able to switch. Really, the latest book, How to be Successful by Being Yourself, is in essence what’s been running through all the other books all along but it’s much more of a personal book.

Bizarrely, organizations are buying hundreds of copies of that so you know, I really don’t quite. As I say, if I’m coming across as slightly confused as to why I’m even on the call with you, why you would take your time, why anyone would listen to this call, I have to say, I’m sorry to say I keep saying this, I’m an ordinary guy with an ordinary life who’s discovered how people can be extraordinary and I’m not a thought leader at all. Everything I write in my books applies to everyone on earth and I want them to use it to fulfil their potential and I’m not particularly interested in doing any more than I’m doing at the moment. I’m very happy in my life.

Alison Jones:  I think we all just want to know how you did it, David, that’s what it is. It’s just such an interesting book and the model is the same that fits into business it’s a natural as well, that’s what I’m particularly interested in. One thing that really struck me about this book, it sort of did with Naked Leader as well, but particularly with this book, was the style that you use. I think you call it predictive persuasion?

David Taylor: Yes.

Alison Jones:  It’s really distinctive and really interesting. I have to say, when I started reading it, I think I said to you just before we started recording, I noticed an odd resistance in myself. I noticed a sense of, “How dare you assume that this is how I’m going to react to your book,” just really interesting because I’ve obviously got a bit of a rebel streak in me. You make really extraordinary claims, well, really powerful and completely unqualified claims, about what the book will do for the reader, you’re so up front about it. I’m just going to read a little bit here, “You need to know this is a manipulative book. It will manipulate you to find a peace that you may not have experienced for many years.” Not many people write like that. Did that style come naturally to you or have you developed it because you know what works through coaching?

David Taylor: Thank you for your kind words and for your resistance. Resistance is important because resistance is an energy. I’m a hypnotherapist, my hobby is hypnotherapy, sorry, sounds like I do it just for a laugh. I’m a qualified hypnotherapist and give me somebody who wants to stop smoking and he smokes 30 a day over and above anyone who smokes one every three days any day. You want people to actually want it or not want it and you’re in. It’s the people who are just unsure, so I love resistance, let me say that to you straight away.

Okay, you say unqualified, How to be Successful by Being Yourself is really in essence, positive psychology plus Buddhism, plus Zen, I spend a lot of time in China, plus the Tao, plus hypnosis so yes, I am unqualified to write these things however I do know they work. Funnily enough, they work even more powerfully when you resist them as I’ll come back to in a moment and give you an illustration and give anyone listening to this an illustration.

Alison Jones:  That’s interesting, I didn’t actually mean unqualified as in you don’t have the qualifications, I mean you don’t qualify the assertions as in, “I think you’ll find that,” I find a lot of people hedge things around with get-outs and you don’t do any of that you just say it and leave it. That was what I meant by unqualified.

David Taylor: I apologize, I don’t mind you suggesting I’m unqualified because as I say, I really don’t mind that at all. Yes, you’re right, I don’t know about you but I read so many books, I won’t name any, it would be unfair, but the number of books you look out on the shelves and it says things like, “How to Make Life Simple,” and you pick the book up and it’s bigger than a cook book, it’s massive and you think, “Why would I read 400 pages?” I just wanted to write a book which was shorter, 20,000 words, and is just, “Here you are, do this stuff, it’ll work.”

The background is very, very briefly, Alison, is that I hypnotized a business leader and we agreed a session, we’d done two or three other sessions, and he turned up late so he didn’t have very long, he was eating a sandwich, which is not a good thing if you’re going to be hypnotized, and he was drunk. He basically sat there and said, “Give me confidence because I’m doing this presentation tomorrow morning to my head office in America.”

Alison Jones:  Did you say he was drunk as well?

David Taylor: I did say he was drunk, yes.

Alison Jones:  I thought I misheard that, okay, carry on.

David Taylor: He’d had a few beers, let’s put it that way, and it’s not a good idea to hypnotize somebody when they’re under the influence of alcohol and to make it even more bizarre, Alison, he had arranged to get a conference room at this hotel he was staying and he couldn’t get one so I was in his bedroom with him. This was really, really strange. However, he was a client, he had a big presentation the next day, I couldn’t just run out on him, I did not know what to do, Alison. What I did was, I just spoke to him as if he was already hypnotized. I spoke to him using normal language, just talking to him. It’s a bit like I’m talking to you now, Alison, or anyone who’s listening to this. Have you noticed that as I’m talking to you now using these normal words and you’re hearing what you’re hearing, it could well be that for no apparent reason you’re starting to feel an incredible moment of calm and extraordinary peace, and I expect your breathing has slowed.

What I discovered, Alison, was you don’t need to bother with the weird stuff in hypnosis, if you just speak to people in a certain way, it has the same impact and that’s what changed everything for me and that’s what the book’s really based on.

Alison Jones:  I love that idea because I treat hypnosis with great suspicion but the idea that you can do it above the level of consciousness but have the same impact is really interesting. I know it’s true as well because you can change your state, you can choose to change your state, but reading? I’ve never had that change of state happen when I was reading a book before. Certainly not in that up front way. Fascinating.

David Taylor: Thank you, Alison, you’re very kind and when you’re involved in writing a book, and I still find writing books really tough, it sometimes feels very lonely and you wonder whether anyone’s going to read it and you really wonder. As you say, I mean, I do do some explanations in there but I just thought, “Look, the way I’ve put it is I think a lot of people don’t need help in their lives, they need to know how.” A lot of people want to know what to do and there’s all these worthy professions, psychiatry, psychology, counselling, which are fantastic and I’m not trying to replace those. Some people believe that a problem shared is a problem halved. I happen to believe a problem shared can be a problem doubled and that when you recount issues in your life that you’ve lived through, you relive them again and I just kind of want to help people to just, “Wham, do this and see if it works.” A little bit more scientific than that, as I say, this was a gobsmacking evening for me.

The guy concerned, the business leader, who’s a very close friend of mine, cannot understand why I thank him so much for taking him to his bedroom when he was a little bit drunk, you know, and eating a sandwich because it had a big impact on him and it’s because it changed everything for me. I started basically, the ultimate science, Alison, the only science that matters is, “Does it work with people?” I started developing this idea and in the book, as you say, I explain the idea, I’m very up front.

I hope I’m up front and say, “Here’s what I’m going to do to you and if you don’t want it to happen, then miss it out because it will work.” It’s a big claim and I have some real cynics, this is my first book with Hodder & Stoughton or John Murray Learning, and I had some real cynics and some of them were psychologists as well. I had to actually do this with them. I’m talking at about a TV thing which may or may not come off at the moment where I actually go on TV and actually apply this stuff to change people’s lives.

It’s really, if I may be very direct with you, Alison, I think there’s a lot of stuff psychologists have kept to themselves and I think it’s a lot of stuff where people have been put on pills rather than realize these truths about themselves. I suppose in a way, I just want to get these messages out and say, “Give this a go,” and it’s extraordinary, absolutely extraordinary, the power to influence and persuasion.

What I do in the book, Alison, is I remove… The thing that psychologists don’t like is that, Alison, there are so many books out there called, The Brain Made Simple, and most of them say we have 156 parts to our brain or 52 parts, I don’t know, it always varies, psychologists, but it’s all a load of rubbish. We have two main parts, the conscious and the subconscious mind and I just thought, “Why not write a book in which you basically overtly say that and you share with people how to access their subconscious mind without the hypnosis. How to get their sort of guard… their bit that protects them to switch off and go straight to people’s subconscious mind?” That’s what hopefully I demonstrated with you just now, and is demonstrated through the book. There are sequence of ways, sequence of everyday words you can use with people that will get them straight to their subconscious and that’s where our big, emotional, life changing decisions are made.

Alison Jones:  I can imagine that that would create a lot of resistance from professionals because that demystifying, the simplifying, in a sense, you’re like, “Well, actually, it’s not that complicated,” and it’s quite threatening I imagine if you’re a professional in a related field.

David Taylor: To be honest with you, I don’t care that it’s creating all that controversy. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the DSM Manual, Alison. The DSM Manual was created by psychologists and psychiatrists a few years ago because they only had a certain number of things that were officially wrong with people. I can understand why it was created, if you were a psychiatrist and I was a psychiatrist and we were seeing two different people with the same symptoms, it’s kind of professional to give it the same name, yeah? Because we can then research it, that’s completely believable but they’ve taken it completely, it’s just become a roller coaster now.

Basically, the DSM Manual now has, I think the latest figure is 70,000 names of things that are wrong with us and it grows by hundreds every month. Probably just since this call has started there’s been another 50 names given that’s wrong with us. What I’m trying to do, Alison, is say that despite all those things that can be wrong with us and have labels, there’s many things that are right with us.

There are so many amazing things about being a human being. People listening to this, I urge you, dust off a strength, dust off a dream, realize that it’s okay to be yourself and there’s many things you can achieve. Ignore the pressure and the negativity and the sort of horrible persuasive element that’s out there that always gives us bad news and tells us we’re not enough and gives us celebrities to look up to and all that sort of thing. Just be yourself, that’s all my message says.

Alison Jones:  I love that and I think also as a writer, just listening to you and taking the lessons from it, I think one thing that really struck me, and I don’t know if you’ve read Stephen King on writing he talks about just cutting away the extraneous stuff and I think that’s a good challenge. If you look at your style and the way that you have pared it down and the way you are so unapologetic about, “It’s like this, people and I know this because I’ve seen it work,” you don’t have to hedge everything around with arguments for your naysayers. You’re quite happy that a lot of people don’t get this, don’t like it, actually hate it, that’s okay because you know that enough people do get it and it changes their lives.

I think there’s kind of a confidence and a clarity around that that could really, and I’m going to take away from this, and I hope will help other people as well, so I really challenge you if you’re listening, look back at your last bit of writing and see how many times you’ve diluted your message or kind of preempted an argument against it and consider whether actually that’s serving you or not.

David Taylor: You’ve just distilled my writing better than I could ever have done, “It’s like this people, this is how it works and I know that because I’ve tested it,” whatever you said, “It’s like this people.” I think, Alison, I said earlier that I don’t care really, you can tell I do care about people or I wouldn’t be basically saying, “Look, do this.” I think that there are naysayers but I love them because actually, what I’m saying is, “Look, here’s some stuff, do it, and if it doesn’t work for you do the opposite.”

I even say that in my new book. I kind of say, “Look, just get off your backside and do something,” I mean it, please. I wrote a book called The Naked Millionaire, which I know is a bit… it was published during the recession as well, and the publisher said, “No, I don’t want The Naked Entrepreneur, I want The Naked Millionaire,” and everyone said, “It’s not about money, it’s not about money,” well, people who say it’s not about money either have so much they don’t know it’s importance or they don’t have any at all. Most of us, money’s quite important to pay the mortgage and put food on the plates and that sort of thing.

Basically, in The Naked Millionaire, I share with people how to get a best selling book. Exactly how to do it, Alison, I don’t hold anything back. You said earlier, “How did you get this book to be a bestseller?” In hindsight of course, because I didn’t know it was going to be a bestseller, what exactly happened? Total number of people who’ve emailed me since that book was published to tell me they’re going to write a book, 256, I keep a record. Total number of people who’ve emailed me saying, “I’ve written a book,” one.

Alison Jones:  Wow.

David Taylor: I forwarded it straight to a publisher and said, “Publish this book,” and they said, “Have you read it?” I said, “No, I don’t need to, this person’s written it,” and I say to anyone out there who wants to write a book, start writing it because the moment you write your first words, you are now writing a book, you are not ‘going to write a book’, you are now writing a book. I know, Alison, you briefed me brilliantly and you said, “What’s the one piece of advice you’d give to a first-time business book author,” if I may give that now?

Alison Jones:  Absolutely, it sounds like you just did.

David Taylor: Yeah, that’s my number two. My number one is, the title is everything. The title is all. Get the most amazing title and don’t tell anyone because this industry is a little bit plagiaristic, it really is. Get a great title, write your book, obviously you’ve got to share the title eventually with a publisher, but if it’s a great title hold onto it yourself.

A third piece of advice, tell stories. Alison, this is where people switch off from the audio because of what I’m about to say. Yes, Stephen King is one of my favourite writers but do you know who I’ve learned so much about writing from? Jeffery Archer. Jeffery Archer, a complete rebel by the way, a complete rebel. He really is, goes to prison and gets told, “Stop writing,” and he writes three books in prison. His Clifton Chronicles, I would say, his Clifton Chronicles haves taught me so much. I would say if I was going to talk about inspiration in my life, it’s Jeffery Archer, other than that, the snowman from Frozen, and Breaking Bad. Those are the three things that have really helped me in my style.

Alison Jones:  Absolutely extraordinary collection, thank you. I love that. Who do you think, please don’t say Jeffery Archer, who do you think I should invite as a guest onto this show? Somebody who’s got something really interesting to say about the business of business books?

David Taylor: Well, I’m not jealous, but Jeffery Archer doesn’t need it with all due respect. I would say, I met a guy called Ross Lovelock, who wrote a book called The One Thing You Need to Know and Ross is the founder of a company called SCQuARE, S C Q U A R E, it simplifies planning better than anyone else I’ve ever seen. I met him and he really is a very plain speaking, how to individual, so I suggest Ross Lovelock.

Alison Jones:  Sounds fascinating, I don’t know him, I don’t know the book but I love the sound of it and I can’t imagine that you would recommend anybody that wasn’t worth talking to so thank you. If people want to find more about you, David, and more about Naked Leader and also How to be Successful by Being Yourself, and just everything that you do, including The Prince’s Trust stuff actually, where can they go to find out more?

David Taylor: Our website is Naked Leader.com, on Twitter @thenakedleader, I’m on LinkedIn, so that’s how to find out about us. However, if you want to find out about yourself, basically decide on a dream that you really want to achieve by answering this question, “Imagine if you simply could not fail, what would you do, where would you go, and who would you be?” I believe that coming up with the answer to that big question and you’re half way there. Yeah, people may want to find out about me, everything I do though is for them to find out more about themselves.

Alison Jones:  You don’t find that on a world wide web.

David Taylor: Yes, absolutely. It’s within every individual, it’s within you, Alison, right now, it’s within all of your relationships, it’s within everyone individually because I think, it’s a key point, Alison, and I know we’re coming to a close but the key point for me is success is very individual. Who’s to say success is having property or a certain amount of money or whatever. It could be a relationship, it could be anything and I think people are entitled, success is very personal to them and that’s why everyone will answer that question very, very differently.

Alison Jones:  Fantastic, thank you so much, David, an incredibly thought provoking podcast. I’m going to recommend that everybody goes back and listens to that again actually because I think there’s a huge amount in there. It was such a pleasure to talk to you, David, thank you for joining us.

David Taylor: Thank you for your time.



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