“I used to say, wouldn’t it be great if I could work like a normal person and do 40 hours a week? And the realization comes that you do have 40 hours, it’s just not in the same week.”
Passive income—it’s the dream, right? Earning money while you sleep, basking in the golden glow of financial freedom. Sadly, it’s not quite that simple.
Award-winning author and digital marketing expert Kate Toon, author of ’Six Figures in School Hours’ and ‘Six Figures While You Sleep’, has achieved that dream and now shows others how to do it for themselves, but she doesn’t sugarcoat it: there’s no such thing as truly passive income. Every income stream, no matter how automated it appears, demands upfront effort and ongoing maintenance. And as with business books, marketing is just as vital as creating the product itself – maybe even more so.
In this energising and practical conversation we discuss the taxonomy of automated income, the way we value time over money, the need to play the long game, the centrality of community and the importance of rationing dopamine.
Kate’s site: https://www.katetoon.com/
Kate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katetoon/
Alison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-alison-jones/
The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge: www.proposalchallenge.com
The Extraordinary Business Book Club on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447064765612358/
Alison Jones: Oh, this is brilliant. By the magic of the internet, I am talking today to Kate Toon, who is an award winning entrepreneur, best selling author, educator, and podcaster, who’s helped thousands of entrepreneurs build their own version of success through digital marketing, copywriting, SEO, and business know how.
She’s the founder of the Digital Marketing Collective and the Recipe for SEO Success, and the author of Six Figures in School Hours, which was named this year’s Work and Life Book of the Year at the Business Book Awards, and the follow up, Six Figures While You Sleep and she’s in Australia.
So thanks. Well, it’s sort of late in my day and early in yours, isn’t it Kate?
Kate Toon: It is. It’s early in the morning. It’s very hot and sweaty here. It was 40 degrees yesterday, so we’re hoping for a thunderstorm today because we’re all dying.
Alison Jones: It was four degrees here this morning, just so you know.
Kate Toon: Oh, I don’t miss English weather.
Alison Jones: It was lovely and crisp.
Kate Toon: Oh, yes. That’s what we say. Blue sky. It’s crisp.
Alison Jones: It was really miserable and wet. But anyway, it’s very, very good to talk to you. And firstly, congratulations on the win.
Kate Toon: Oh, thank you. Yes, awards are a funny old thing, aren’t they? You know, the people who win them tend to enter them. But no, it’s a nice bit of affirmation. It was good.
Alison Jones: And of course you weren’t in the room, so did somebody call you at like three in the morning your time?
Kate Toon: No, I found out via social media and it’s, you know, of all the bloody events. Sorry, I hope I’m okay to say that. All the events I go to and don’t win. The one time I don’t go, I win.
So I’ve never had my moment of glory, you know?
Alison Jones: Maybe that’s your secret of success from now on, just don’t rock up
Kate Toon: Just don’t turn up. Yes.
Alison Jones: Let’s sit at home with the champagne on ice.
Kate Toon: Yes, that’s my approach in life.
Alison Jones: So, what I really want to talk about is, there’s no segue there, sorry, I’m just going straight into it, this whole idea of passive income; because it’s such a weird phrase and you’re very clear in the book that this is a problematic phrase.
Like, what was it? ‘No income’s passive. All incomes are active, but some are more active than others.’ I think it, the lovely kind of misquote that you did.
So what is it? And how, what’s your take on it, in 2024? Because it feels like things have changed.
Kate Toon: Yes, 2025 just around the corner and look, I was quite sneaky because I kind of wanted to use the word passive income on the cover because I know that it’s a sexy topic and people are excited about the idea of making money by doing nothing. But I didn’t want it to come from my mouth. So the quote on the front cover is from an author over here, Andrew Griffiths, and he talks to the passive income part. So I guess a passive income traditionally is things like investing in stocks and shares, buying an investment property, leasing an asset, you know, letting someone move into a room in your house.
I can’t imagine anything worse, you know, but all those passive income tactics require you to have upfront funds. You know, you need money to invest in shares. You need a lot of money to buy an investment property. And when I was starting out in this little adventure, I had no money and it was quite the opposite. I had a lot of debt with the tax office.
So, I needed something that I could make money from passively that required no investment. And all I had therefore was my brain, my existing skills and services. So really what I talk to in the book is taking your existing skills and services, whatever they may be, whether they are business focused, or even if they’re just personal, like you’re a really great crochet artist or you’re a mosaica, and thinking: rather than doing this and exchanging time for money, how can I do this one to many and maybe teach other people to do what I do and then, you know, have that scalable passive income source?
Alison Jones: And you give a sort of taxonomy of the ADPIPS, as you call them. Now, I can’t remember the acronym now, what is it? Automated digital…
Kate Toon: Automated digital passive income products. Well done. I did have a different one, which was systemize something and it came out as like SISIFUS, which sounded
Alison Jones: yeah.
Kate Toon: vaginal cream. So I didn’t go with that one.
Alison Jones: I mean, it’s a character from Greek myth, but I know what you mean.
Kate Toon: Yes, it is. Yes. It was like SISIFUSILY. So ADPIP sounded a bit better, but yes, there’s four core ADPIPs, automated digital passive income products, and they are digital downloads. So templates, checklists, eBooks, that kind of thing, courses, we’re all aware of courses, they come in all shapes and sizes, online courses, memberships, so, you know, they’re a very common model now where you pay a monthly fee to be part of an online membership, may have some in person events, and masterminds, which are some kind of VIP version of the membership with a very small group of people where people get a bit more exposure to you, the teacher, you, the expert.
So, those are my four ADPIPs.
Alison Jones: And there’s something really… so let’s, we’ll talk about sort of how things have changed because it’s a fast moving space, isn’t it? And I really wanted to come back to that, but just in principle, there’s something very empowering about this. I mean, you say when you started out on this journey, it was very much, I have nothing except my wits, you know, but actually I can create value. And there’s something about, I think for women particularly, having kids or having caring demands or having not the ability to just, you know, sit down and work for eight hours and then stop again. You know, there’s something really empowering about the flexibility of this stuff, isn’t there?
Kate Toon: Yes and I mean, that was everything to me. So I, you know, I started my business when I was pregnant. I’ve always had my child and my business at the same time. So my business is an unruly 15 year old. And so is my son, you know, although he’s a bit more sensible.
Alison Jones: And your business eats less.
Kate Toon: Yes, my son eats so much yogurt at the moment, honestly.
So my income is really just about providing my son with yogurt. That’s really the focus of it. But yes, I mean, that’s…
Alison Jones: Keep him in yogurt. That’s actually hilarious.
Kate Toon: I know, I know. So, you know, the thing with this model is, you know, yes, there are little intense bursts of work because that’s how all I can work. You know, maybe I’ll get two hours. I’m never going to get an eight hour stretch.
I used to say, wouldn’t it be great if I could work like a normal person and do 40 hours a week? And the realization comes that you do have 40 hours, it’s just not in the same week. It’s going to be spread over three weeks, right? So just going to take you a little bit longer, but you do have the time.
So, you know, this model enables me to do little spurts, create something, a template, a mini course, put it out to market. And then it’s earning money while I’m doing other things. I mean, obviously it’s not that straightforward. There’s marketing, we talk to all of that in the book, but the simple, you get to the point where we realize obviously time is finite. You can only charge so much an hour until you kind of go out of the bracket of other people in your industry. You know, so you can keep putting your hourly rate up, but at some point someone’s going to say: you’re twice the price of everyone else. Right?
So you get to the point where there’s only so much you can earn. And if that’s not enough to support your lifestyle or your goals, then you need to find that extra source of money. And so that was the main reason for me.
Alison Jones: And you’re very much, you said then, that’s not it, you can’t just sort of like drop it onto an unsuspecting world and sort of run away and hope it’s going to do the work. So tell us about the marketing funnel, tell us about the work that you have to do just to keep this thing going.
And also how that’s changed over the sort of 10 years or so since you’ve been starting to do it.
Kate Toon: Yes, and I think the marketing is actually more important than the product, which I think we know in a lot of, you know, that…
Alison Jones: …same with books. Yes.
Kate Toon: It’s so true, and as I was saying, I own a bookshop and, I see how some books are really forced on the bookshop owners. And others aren’t, and they’re not necessarily the best books by any means, anyway, but yes, so the marketing actually starts first. So before you even build a single thing, make a single template, you really need to get your marketing ducks in a row and you need to decide who you want to be in your space. You know, what are your values? What personality do you want to have? If you don’t have a personality, you have to make one up.
And what do you want to stand for? So for example, one of my big ADPIPs was in the Google space, SEO, optimizing websites to rank, right? Very male dominated space, very humorless space, very geeky, it’s really hard, you need to be a genius to do this space. So I wanted to be contrary, and I went the other way. SEO is fun, SEO is easy, anyone can do SEO, there’s no magic secret.
And building those pillars of my brand up first started to build the trust. Then you make something very small and free, and you try and give it away because if you can’t give it away for free, no one’s going to be paying the big bucks for it.
So it’s all about the funnel. And I talk about this in extensive detail in the book: top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, you know, building awareness, then getting some interest, getting someone to sign up for your free thing, nurturing them through email, maybe selling them something little and small. So they’ve got used to getting their credit card out and slowly building them towards buying the bigger thing, whether the bigger thing is a big cost thing or a big time commitment thing, because people are more funny about committing time than they are about committing money, I’ve found.
Alison Jones: It’s more precious. It’s more scarce.
Kate Toon: It more precious and more finite and people hate commitment and there’s an idea if you spend a big blob of cash on something it’s going to solve your problems. Whereas we all know that doesn’t necessarily happen, it’s the time and effort and energy that you put in that does.
So really the funnel starts first, funnel sounds like a dirty word but it’s building the brand and awareness of you and trust and the relationship. So when you do come along with your thing, people are ready to buy.
The problem I see happening most is people build the thing, put it out there and go, and then no one’s interested because it’s like, well, I only heard about it today. And the classic example I use, I will stop talking in a minute, is I do play the long game.
You know, so part of being successful in business is just being around long enough for people to know who you are. And I have a lovely member called Sue, who I do talk about in the book. Poor Sue, I drag her out as an example all the time. And she was in my funnel for seven years. Seven years since she kind of interacted the first time and got something free until she then joined my membership and made that commitment.
Now she’s been in the membership for three, four years. She’s a huge advocate for me and my brand. She’s a great member. Took seven years, you know, so it’s about playing the long game and putting the effort in in the marketing.
Alison Jones: And you talk a lot about community, which is something very close to my heart as well but it does really underline the point that this is not, I mean, you say it’s income while you sleep, it kind of is, but it’s also kind of not, is it? It’s a job.
Kate Toon: It’s a job. Yes, it’s work. I mean, it’s less work and it’s scalable, I guess.
Alison Jones: Yes. That’s the scalability…
Kate Toon: …yes. You know…
Alison Jones: …network effect there as the community gets bigger. What I’ve noticed is, you know, people start to look after each other, which is amazing and you get sort of champions within it.
Kate Toon: They do. And I mean, I talk about in the book, the six degrees of Kevin Bacon and how, when you first sell something like this, it will sell well because you’re selling it to your best people, your friends, people you’ve worked with before, and then it’s the sales three and four that kind of sink away because you’ve used up all your immediate community and that’s about now building a wider community.
But yes, I mean, my actual next book is focused on communities as a sales tactic, because I don’t like Facebook ads, just because I don’t like giving money to Meta and I’ve never been able to make them work, even with all the expert help. And I don’t really like Google ads because it’s so competitive and so expensive.
So I’m not…
Alison Jones: …especially for terms like SEO. Surely.
Kate Toon: Yes. And for everything, you know, it’s $30 a click, you know and that’s not even a sale. So I’ve always really built my brand through making little communities of people, bringing people together, giving them a safe space. As you said, creating advocates in that group who then, not police, but channel the vibe of the group. So it becomes a self sustaining entity.
You’re still there as the leader and, you know, the direction and the vibe, but you’re not there holding it with a tight iron fist. And that is hugely been my thing, because again, I focus now more on the bottom of the funnel on reselling to people I’ve already sold to or making things that respond to their needs.
So last year, for example, my community were worried about AI, right. And how it was going to impact everything. So for my community, I did a free day on AI and didn’t charge them, a whole group of speakers, I charged people who weren’t in the community, but for them it was free, because the retention of those people is more important to me than getting a little bit of dollar out of them, you know?
So again, playing the long game and building long term relationships.
Alison Jones: Which is, as it turns out, also much more fun and much more rewarding for you. Yes, so it’s just a more human way to do it, isn’t it?
Kate Toon: Yes.
Alison Jones: In terms of writing, you come from a copywriting background, which is really obvious in the book. It’s just, it’s so full of personality. And I know Lesley at Major Street Publishers, and I was laughing because you were like, this book’s going to be full of stuff that Lesley was going to try and make me take out, which really made me laugh.
But how, is that a curse or a blessing coming from the copywriting background when you’re trying to write something at book scale?
Kate Toon: Oh, it’s such a blessing. Also the project management background because, you know, the hardest thing about writing a book is writing it. I know that sounds ridiculous. It’s not the idea. Often, well, it’s hard to sometimes come up with an idea and, you know, come up with something, an idea that’s original, and you literally can’t come up with an idea that’s original.
And even part of pitching to a publisher is telling them that your book has already been written. You have to give comparison titles. You have to prove that it’s been written, but a little bit different, right? But, you know, I was disciplined, so I set myself an hour, an hour aside each morning and I didn’t set a writing, necessarily a word goal, but I had to write for the hour every morning.
And generally I’d get, you know, one, two thousand words because I’m a fast typer and I’m used to writing on deadline. We’re talking about Parkinson’s law. If you give me an hour to do the job, I’ll do it in an hour. If you give me three, I’ll do it in three. But I also, with my writing, I am very unattached to it, which you have to be with copywriting.
It’s a product of me, it’s not me. So, for example, I would write the first draft, send it off to my Mum and Dad, bless them, and they would clean it up. Then I would send it off to another reader, who would give feedback. Then another reader, so it was like a waterfall effect.
I was working on chapter two while chapter one was being read by my Mum and Dad. Then I was on chapter three while chapter one was being read by Sue, and chapter two was being read by Mum and Dad. And it kind of flowed down, which meant by the time I got to the final chapter, most of the book had been read by five people already. And then I just had to go through and tidy it up.
Barbara Cartland used to do this. I saw a documentary with her. She used to write on a typewriter, bless her, and each draft was in different colored paper. The final draft being pink, I believe. But she would do, I think, seven drafts, seven rounds and get it read and just keep going through it and going through it and going through it.
But yes, I think, the The speed of being able to write fast, the ability to detach yourself from the writing, the ability to not go back and read what you read the day before is really important. Sometimes I write in white font on a white page, so I can’t even read what I’ve written, because there’s a tendency for your eye to trip back over the last sentence and go, is that the right adjective? Is it?
It’s not the point. Just get it down. You can fiddle with the adjectives later, you know, get it down.
Alison Jones: This only works if you touch type, I’m guessing.
Kate Toon: Yes, it does.
Alison Jones: Yes. Have you ever found yourself just, I don’t know, a key out when you’re touch typing and just written a page of garbage?
Kate Toon: Oh, yes. I mean, I’d say half the book’s garbage. No, I’m joking.
No, I think because I ruminate a lot, you know, I’m only writing an hour a day, so the rest of the day I’m thinking about what I’m going to write, you know, and I don’t know, and then, you know, people read it and go, this whole paragraph makes no sense whatsoever, what are you talking about?
And I’ll just be like, rather than trying to rewrite it, I’ll probably just delete it. So I’m a brutal editor of my own work as well. But no, I read that a lot of people don’t have an internal narrative. I have a very strong internal narrative. So it’s almost like my brain is reading out what I’m typing to me, couple of words ahead.
And you know, and then I’ll sort of, when I’m talking and presenting, I often do little asides. And I found the key to writing a good book is to include those asides. Even if you’ve written a paragraph of rubbish. After that you write: well that was a bit confusing, should I try and explain it better?
You know, you have a little conversation with the reader and leave those funny bits in. And as I said, Will is the editor and he would come back and go, did you mean to say this? And I’m like, yes I did.
Alison Jones: Yes, I totally did.
Kate Toon: Not a typo, totally meant that. But by the end, he was like, no, that was funny. And he said, I laughed out loud in some places. And I rarely do that with a business book.
So that was a huge compliment from Will. Yes.
Alison Jones: Yes, you are quite scathing about business books at the start.
Kate Toon: I don’t like them. I don’t read them. A lot of them are quite dry and very look at me, I’m great, very bombastic. Or they’re just packed full of case studies, like there’s a couple of books over here, they’re books from my comps.
And really there’s about, you know, 20,000 words of the author’s narrative and the rest is just case studies, interviews with other successful people. And I find that really lazy writing. I don’t want to read a transcript of an interview. You know, do the interview, fantastic. Then, you know, reduce it to its essentials and present that to me with your voice and your experience.
Can’t bear a book that’s just packed with, here’s Marjorie, who had a $20 million business. Oh, bugger off Marjorie. Do you know what I mean? I just want to hear how I can achieve this, not how you achieved this.
Alison Jones: I loved your guinea pigs. You’ve got an actual icon of a guinea pig and then you just sort of highlight a few people because it brings it alive, doesn’t it? You can tell me an abstract idea, but I want to hear how it went for this person.
Kate Toon: I really just wanted to get the icon of the guinea pig in there and believe me, that was the battle as well. , but no, I thought that was really helpful. So I’ve got a lawyer and e-commerce store owner who deals with eczema and a WordPress developer who’s actually my partner as well. So that was interesting.
Alison Jones: I didn’t realize that.
Kate Toon: Yes, yes. And you know, watching, so explaining how to do something and then going, so this is how Tony would do this. And this is, and I do think that brings it home.
Alison Jones: It brings it to life. Yes.
Kate Toon: The nice thing about them is they’re not, they haven’t done it yet. They’re not like coming back going and they’re like, Oh, well actually that’s quite a struggle.
I don’t know what I’m going to do about this. So they are the everyman in the book. They are us. They are you. Yes.
Alison Jones: Relatable,
Kate Toon: They’re relatable.
Alison Jones: As we say in the business book world. Yes.
Kate Toon: Yes, exactly.
Alison Jones: So it’s interesting, we’re talking about digital product and we’re talking about marketing and funnels. And we’re talking particularly about digital marketing, we’re talking about communities. How does the book work within that ecosystem as part of a funnel?
Or does it not? Is it something separate?
Kate Toon: No, I think it can. I think often business books are simply paid lead magnets. You know, I’ve been to events where people are handing out their books like candy, you know, and it’s like, obviously that’s a fantastic lead magnet, because you’re going to spend eight hours reading that book. And by the end of that, you’re either going to love or hate the writer, you know, and you’re going to be really connected to them.
And often we read in places where we feel happy and comfortable. It’s like podcasts. I think podcasts are hugely powerful because, you know, I’m listening to you while I’m walking my dog and drinking coffee. I love you. You know, I’d take a bullet for Ira Levin, who does This American Life. Not Ira Levin. Ira, I can’t remember his second name. But anyway, I’d take a bullet for him. I can’t remember his second name.
So it’s a very intimate relationship, but often I find those kind of lead magnety books are very, you know, people say, Oh, I wrote it in 48 hours. And I’m like, that’s not something you should boast about. You know, they’re not well written. They’re not an enjoyable read. There’ll be easier ways to learn what you’re teaching me. You know, I’d rather read a blog post, thanks very much.
So the first book, Six Figures in School Hours, I really wanted to write something that I thought would sell and amusingly it got rejected by many publishers who said there wasn’t, the Venn diagram I have drawn of parents and business didn’t exist and I’m like, are you kidding?
So, it was great to prove them wrong because it sold rather well over here. But it didn’t really fit in my ecosystem. I don’t have a product off the back of that. I don’t have a community for mums in business. I’m not, none of my communities are gender based and I don’t want to exclude people who aren’t mums, you know?
So that was a kind of a standalone. It was a great experience. I wanted to get a book in the airport. I’m going to be honest, I was shallow. That’s what I wanted.
The next book is very much a reflection of what I do and what I teach. So there is a natural on sell of my masterminds. I have a mastermind that goes with the book, which I sold as I published the book, which completely recouped all my costs, but also it ties into my membership as well. So if you finish reading that book, there are next steps. Whereas with the other one, there kind of is, I mean, you can join my communities and join me, but you’re not necessarily going to buy anything from me.
So this one was a lot more business-y, focused-y, funnel-y than the first one.
Alison Jones: Part of the system. Yes, love it.
Kate Toon: Part of the ecosystem. Yes.
Alison Jones: So, Kate, I always, I feel a bit greedy now because you’ve actually given us so many, but I always ask my guests for their best tip for somebody who’s just sort of setting out on this journey of writing a business book. So I guess, what would you wish you’d known when you started out on the journey? If you can remember…
Kate Toon: …yes, I can. Gosh, I think…
Alison Jones: …never forget.
Kate Toon: Yes, I mean, the thing is you have to write the thing and that is hard and often I think what people do is they tell people they’re going to write a book because they want the accountability, but they also want the dopamine. They want the bottom pat.
Oh, you’re so amazing. You’re writing a book. Well you haven’t written it yet. So you don’t deserve the bottom pat. And I need to save that dopamine up till the end because otherwise it’s like carrot and stick, but you’ve eaten the carrot right at the beginning and all you’re left with is a stick to beat yourself with for the next few months.
So I don’t like talking to people about my idea until I’ve written the book. And I know you’re different on this.
Alison Jones: Yes, again, I completely couldn’t disagree more. And I think it’s brilliant that, you know, but listen, it’s, you forget, don’t you, that what you have is an opinion.
Kate Toon: Yes.
Alison Jones: I just know that if it weren’t for actually telling people about the book, and getting that sort of sense of accountability, of ‘now I have to write the damn thing’, but also the conversations that you have as you talk about the book and people saying, ‘Oh, you should talk to so and so’ and those sort of serendipitous connections, you know, I just think they’re gold. And I also think that you must be some incredibly morally strong, upholding type, just to be able to just say that you’re going to do it to yourself.
Kate Toon: Morally strong person. Look, I’m not saying I didn’t hint at that it was coming, but I did force myself to get a little bit under my belt. And also it’s very important who you tell, because I have a small group of select people who were reading the drafts as I was going through, and then they would give me opinions. Like, why don’t you speak to Bob? Why don’t you speak to Sue?
But it was based on a framework that I’d already put together. So for me, that’s the better time to get the feedback, when I’ve done a bit of the hard work, because I am essentially a very lazy, greedy, egotistical person. And if people are telling me I’m wonderful and I don’t even have to do anything, I’m going to take it.
So, you know, yes, I think that was, it’s very hard for me. Now, I did write my books very quickly. So I wrote each book in seven weeks with that method that I talked about. But, you know, I’d been thinking about them for years and years and years. So they kind of poured out of me. So it didn’t take me long to get my dopamine.
But yes that for me is an important part of it. Getting the draft down before you start showing off about it.
Alison Jones: Yes, I love that. And I think it’s really, really helpful to get those different perspectives on it. Brilliant.
I am also going to ask you to recommend us a book, not your own, that’s not allowed, and it doesn’t have to even be a business book. I’m very broad minded, but you know, recommend us a book that you think people listening should read.
Kate Toon: Look, I’m not a big reader of business books. I do love…
Alison Jones: We established that, didn’t we?
Kate Toon: Yes, I know. I just, ooh.
There’s a book I love called Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff by Richard something or other, which you know, is very pawed and very gifted. But obviously now that I’ve bought a bookshop, I have a TBR pile of about 60,000 books to get through.
So right now, a book that I’m loving is James by Percival Everett. It was a Booker Prize nominee. I’ve read two of the other, I read the winner and I read another one and I don’t know what they were on that day when they did the voting. The Orbital is very good, but it’s very difficult, but it’s a beautiful book. It’s a retelling of the Huckleberry Finn story from Jim’s perspective, and it’s really quite beautiful. I think it’s a modern classic. So, yes.
Alison Jones: I read American Fiction, not that long ago. No, no, it’s not American Fiction is it? That’s the film.
Kate Toon: American Dirt?
Alison Jones: No, it’s Percival Everett.
Kate Toon: Oh, yes, his other one. Yes. I can’t remember the title either. But yes, he’s a good writer, eh?
Alison Jones: So good but I mean, dense and complex and firework-y.
Kate Toon: Oh, it’s a proper grown up book, you know, I like to read a proper grown up book and then read something a little bit trashy in between, you know, to kind of clean the palate, cleanse the palate.
Alison Jones: Yes nothing like a good YA book, is there?
Kate Toon: Yes love a YA.
Alison Jones: Ripped through it in an evening.
Kate Toon: Freida McFadden, a nice little easy crime, you know exactly what’s going to happen and who did what, but it doesn’t matter because it’s just enjoyable and comforting.
Alison Jones: Kate, I want to run a bookshop now.
Kate Toon: I know it’s great. It is amazing. I mean, you know, talk about community. We’re talking here about digital products and passive income, I’ve spent 15 years working with things that don’t really exist and dealing with people primarily online and not having any human contact, so part of buying the bookshop was really creating that community IRL, in real life, and having genuine connections.
Last night we did late night shopping for the first time, which is very revolutionary where I live. And we had a little, because it’s on a Wednesday and people are appalled that I wouldn’t do it on a Thursday, and we had a little band outside playing, people stopping with their fish and chips coming in the shop.
And it was, I had a little moment, I had a little moment, it was beautiful.
Alison Jones: Kate, if people want to find out more about you, more about the books, more about the stuff you do, more about the book that you’re not talking about that you must be writing but you’re not telling us about it yet, where should they go?
Kate Toon: If you Google Kate Toon, they’ll either find a competent dentist in Ipswich or you’ll find me. So, and then I’ve got lots of, I’ve got 72 different websites and podcasts and whatever, but you can start your journey at katetoon.com.
Alison Jones: Amazing. And if you do need a dentist, that’s also a good tip. Brilliant.
Such fun to talk to you. Thank you very much for waking up early. It was worth me staying up late at night.
It’s all great.
Kate Toon: Oh, it’s been lovely. Lovely, lovely.
Thank you.
Alison Jones: Thank you so much.
