‘Readers don’t finish books that make them feel impressed by someone with a lot of experience or success. They finish books that make them feel capable.’
Does the book still have a place in next-generation corporate learning platforms? You bet.
Amy Cantin of Skillsoft talks me through the evolution of organizational learning, and the ways in which business books underpin the various summaries, webinars, AI simulations and social learning opportunities they offer their corporate clients to ensure not only that every employee keeps learning, but that they are able to learn in the way that suits them best.
There are great tips here on how to write a book that’s truly transformational for professional development, and a reminder that while the learning landscape has evolved, books remain the fullest expression of the ideas that shape work-life, and authors are still central to the learner’s experience.
Skillsoft site: https://www.skillsoft.com/
Amy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amycantin/
Alison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-alison-jones/
The 10-day Business Book Proposal Challenge: www.proposalchallenge.com
Link for submitting your clip for Episode 500: https://bit.ly/45RfpdY
Alison Jones: I’m here today with Amy Cantin, who leads Skillsoft’s readable solutions offering, promoting books and audio books and summaries and book reviews and the Off-the-Shelf Book Club to encourage a culture of reading and lifelong learning. And I think we’re all here for that, aren’t we?
So first of all, welcome to the show, Amy. It’s nice to have you here.
Amy Cantin: Thank you Alison. It’s really nice to be here. I’m excited for our conversation.
Alison Jones: I think we’re going to have to start with you telling people who don’t already know, what’s Skillsoft?
Amy Cantin: What is Skillsoft? Skillsoft is pivoting from being thought of as an e-learning content provider to positioning itself as a strategic workforce transformation platform. One built specifically for the age of AI.
Alison Jones: You’re going to have to unpack that a bit for us, Amy.
Amy Cantin: Yes, of course. We offer a library of courses, books, videos, leader camps, which are webinars with thought leaders, bestselling authors where they transfer their ideas and their best practices to our global learners.
As you mentioned, we have an off the shelf book club and we have a CAISY AI conversation simulator so our learners can practice difficult conversations in real time.
Alison Jones: Wow. It is a real interesting sort of insight into how e-learning is developing because I’m guessing that you started simply by offering resources on the site.
Amy Cantin: Yes for many years we were a content library, and it’s evolved, as everything has with the age of AI. There’s so much to leverage and I think learners expect that dynamic experience and not just a static one.
Alison Jones: And it is interesting that books are still so central for you and that you’ve almost wrapped an experiential sort of almost community layer around them as well. And you’re putting authors directly in touch with readers. And I guess where do you see the role of business books in business today? How do your users use them?
Amy Cantin: I think the role of books, or business books in particular, are just fundamental. The format is resilient. I always say the books are a timeless learning tool.
And the beauty of how our learners can access them on our Percipio platform is they can ingest how much they need or want at any given time.
If they want to only read a chapter, for example, on a specific skill or a specific concept, they can do that. It’s not necessary for them to read the entire book. And of course we also have audio books, which are ideal for your evening commute if you’re on the train or if you are at the gym or driving or just anything. Audio gives you that sense of portable magic. Right.
Alison Jones: Yes, I’d argue books are as well. It’s a Neil Gaiman quote, isn’t it? Books are a uniquely portable magic. It’s such a great quote.
Amy Cantin: That’s right. I was drawing on that. Good catch.
Alison Jones: It’s such a great quote. And that sort of the book club thing as well, again, that idea about making it more… bringing it to people’s attention in a way, giving them more than just a passive reading experience.
Tell me a bit more about how the book club works. Off the page…
Amy Cantin: As of right now, we’re re-imagining what the book club is going to look like, so definitely, more to come on that.
But I think, it’s just there’s power in social reading. I think people want to be part of a community. I think a lot of times people join book clubs, not necessarily for the reading itself, but for the social aspect.
Alison Jones: Yes, in my book club we joke… yes, we joke we’re all there for the cake actually.
Amy Cantin: Yes. Yes. I’ve heard some variations of that like a wine club that likes to read.
Alison Jones: But in business terms, what does that do when you are reading in community?
Amy Cantin: I think it provides a platform for just thought-provoking conversations. It gets people thinking out of their comfort zones. It gets people bonding with each other. And I think that’s the most beautiful part of a book club is just the social connections that can be made over the practice of reading.
Alison Jones: It is so interesting because you are working at several different levels within Skillsoft, aren’t you? You obviously have the organizational level and the resources that are I guess the organization leadership are directing people to is the most valuable or the most interesting for them particularly.
And then you’ve got the individual level who’s looking at the platform and looking at what interests them and what catches their eye. And then in between you’ve got this sort of team level of people who want to sit down together and discuss an idea that might be useful for them. Can you see that playing out in the usage stats?
Amy Cantin: I think we do see that in the consumption data that we’ve looked at. It varies, because we are a subscription based service, companies purchase seats or a number of subscriptions for their employees. And a lot of times they assign assets, courses, books, what have you in a particular learning plan.
So for example, their learning plan could look something like, read this book. Take this course, attend this leader camp, practice this CAISY scenario, or simulation. So I think it’s a, it can provide like an end-to-end learning journey.
Alison Jones: Which you don’t have to take alone.
Amy Cantin: You don’t, you’ve got your team members, everyone within that particular learning plan is right there with you.
Alison Jones: And if the book is the sort of long form expression of a piece of intellectual property, how do you generate from that or put alongside that, different forms of those ideas? Like how do you translate that into a course or an abstract or leadership conversations, what do you do from the book?
Amy Cantin: That’s a really good question. I think it varies from person to person, I also think… we don’t build courses from books at this time. We may look into doing that with select publishers. Obviously there’s some agreements and a legal portion that has to be considered.
Alison Jones: Oh yes, intellectual property.
Amy Cantin: Yes, exactly. But we do acknowledge that people, professionals, are time starved and they often need a shorter form of a book. So we’re looking at doing some sort of insights around the book. And that may just be, for example, a five minute video or audio recording of me sharing some of my insights around a particular book. We do have book summaries and book reviews in our collection. The book reviews in particular are interesting because we critique the author’s treatment of the book’s salient points.
So it gives, it’s an opinion piece, but it gives some insights that perhaps the average reader wouldn’t have time to draw themselves because they have five minutes to go into a meeting and appear as though they’ve read this book.
Alison Jones: This is the big constraint… it’s the big constraint for business book authors because you are writing relatively long-form stuff for people who have very little time. So putting the architecture in place around that, signposting the points to people, but also being open to these other ways of getting the message across. Whether that’s an abstract or a summary or a sort of five minute, as you say, talking head or the audio version of it, it’s all about meeting people where they’re at, isn’t it? And giving them ideas in a way that they can actually take them on board and operationalize them.
Amy Cantin: Meeting them where they’re at is right on target. That’s, I think, what every business book author needs to keep in mind and to write for the reader’s transformation. Readers don’t finish books that make them feel impressed by someone with a lot of experience or success. They finish books that make them feel capable. Like every chapter, every story should just answer the question of what does this mean for me and what can I do differently because of it?
Alison Jones: Yes, that’s a great way of expressing it. And it’s, I often say, writing a book, it’s in a sense, it’s quite hubristic. You’re putting yourself up there as the authority, but actually it’s all about serving your reader. It’s not about you, it’s about them.
Amy Cantin: Agreed. Agreed. I’ve had several people tell me, that I should write a business book. I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I’ve worked with books for my entire career but at the same time, I have so many passions and interests and topics that I’d have a hard time narrowing it down.
So I give business book authors the utmost credit for being able to focus on one particular area.
Alison Jones: Yes. Yes, it’s not easy. Often as you’re writing, you’re in such a sort of creative state as well that the ideas come thick and fast, and it takes quite a lot of discipline to just keep your eyes on the end line of this particular manuscript.
But when it works well, Amy when people, when the author writes the right book, when it meets the right reader what’s the value of that for the organization as well as for the individual?
Amy Cantin: For the organization as in our Skillsoft’s customers?
Alison Jones: The organization that’s paid for those resources to be made available to its employees.
Amy Cantin: I think the value that comes to them is their employees learn transferable skills that they can apply in their work at that particular organization. Skillsoft is all about building a skill force, helping each organization transform employees learning into actionable results.
Alison Jones: And even just by subscribing to a service like Skillsoft, I guess it’s a commitment on the part of the organization that says we are a learning organization. One of our expectations of you as members of this organization is that you invest in your own learning and we will support you to do that, which I think is quite a powerful message.
Amy Cantin: It is, I think it’s the most powerful message to have your organization backing you so that you can grow professionally is the most important thing.
Alison Jones: Yes.
Amy Cantin: It’s the most important thing that we can do for our employees as leaders.
Alison Jones: Yes, that’s a great way of putting it.
What about you, Amy? How have books been part of your professional development?
Amy Cantin: They have, gosh. Like I said I’ve been with Skillsoft for 25 years, and in those 25 years I have always had one foot firmly planted in the world of books. I’ve done other things, but I’ve always been involved in books. And I think for me, business books gave me vocabulary before I had experience.
Alison Jones: Ooh.
Amy Cantin: They gave me frameworks that I could test against reality. For example, some held up, some didn’t. The ones that stuck weren’t necessarily the ones with the best ideas, but the best ones were those that made me uncomfortable enough to actually change something or develop something in my own professional life.
I think back to a book I read in 2020 and it was Just Listen by Mark Goulston. The subtitle is, Discover the secret to getting through to absolutely anyone. It taught me so much about active listening, of just being present in the moment because so many of us are thinking how we’re going to respond while we’re having a conversation with someone and that shows, it shows on our faces, it shows in our body language.
So that’s just one example of, my lifelong love affair with books is just anything that could make me actually change a behavior or learn a skill.
Alison Jones: You’re in good company here, Amy. We are amongst friends right now.
Amy Cantin: I love that.
Alison Jones: You’ve given us a brilliant, several brilliant tips already for authors, but as somebody who works in the space where you are connecting readers with authors and you’re seeing how they’re using those resources, from that perspective what advice would you give to a first time business book author?
Amy Cantin: I think, as I said a few minutes ago, just have that question in mind, for the reader’s question in mind, of what does this mean for me and what can I do differently because of it?
As I was saying, in my own professional development, what makes me feel capable, what makes me feel uncomfortable? What is a skill or a practice or a framework that I can take away that will actually affect my life?
Alison Jones: Yes, it’s a great piece of advice. It is so easy just to write about things that you find very interesting.
Amy Cantin: That is true.
Alison Jones: Which might not helpful.
Amy Cantin: That is true.
Alison Jones: And I’m guessing you have seen a lot of books in your time on the platform and in your own reading, so I’m really interested, you’ve recommended us one already actually, but if I was to ask you to recommend us a book that you think anybody listening to this podcast should have a read of, what would that be?
Amy Cantin: Hands down, that would be Good Comes First by my friends Chris Edmonds and Mark Babbitt. The core idea is that leaders need to build cultures where both results and respect are non-negotiable, not one or the other. And the concept of good isn’t soft or secondary, but it’s a competitive advantage and a leadership responsibility.
It’s about defining your organization’s values in behavioral terms, holding everyone accountable to those behaviors, including senior leaders and building what the authors call a, let’s see if I can remember this, purposeful, positive and productive work culture.
I love the alliteration there too.
Alison Jones: Yes,
Amy Cantin: It’s a terrific book and I can’t recommend it enough.
Alison Jones: And I haven’t heard of it before, so thank you. I love it when somebody comes up with a recommendation that’s completely new to me. It’s always a joy. Brilliant.
Amy Cantin: And if listeners are on Percipio, we have the audio book of Good Comes First on Percipio.
Alison Jones: Fantastic.
If people want to find out more, if people go I’m not on Percipio, but I probably should be. How do people find out more about Skillsoft? More about the offering?
Amy Cantin: Just simply visit our website. It’s just skillsoft.com and there’s lots of great information there. There’s opportunity for a free trial of Percipio, our next generation platform. There’s so much material that learners can just, or learners or listeners, I’m sorry, I’m used to speaking in terms of learners, that listeners can just read and consume at their own pace and click around and to really understand what the experience is.
Particularly on Percipio with that free trial I mentioned.
Alison Jones: Yes, amazing. And you’ll find lots of Practical Inspiration titles on there too, which is very pleasing.
Amy Cantin: You will. We’re very grateful for the new partnership that we have with Practical Inspiration, lots of amazing business books there.
Alison Jones: Yes. And all of them addressing the so what question, what does this mean for me? What can I do differently? Yes, I think ideologically we are very aligned Skillsoft and Practical Inspiration, which is great.
Amy Cantin: I think we are. I think we are, and that’s why we’re having this conversation today I think, is because when we met we just thought, alright, you’re into book clubs, I’m into book clubs, let’s chat.
Alison Jones: Fantastic, Amy. It was really good to find out a bit more about Skillsoft. Also find out a bit more about you and your sort of journey with business books as well. So thank you so much for sharing that. It’s been amazing. Thank you for your time.
Amy Cantin: Thanks so much for having me. This has been the most fun part of my day.
Alison Jones: Yay.
